Theory or Intuition?

[Chris]

It doesn't matter anymore what the root cause is, You're all taking part and appearing as nasty, vindictive and petty. It's not a good advert for you or your band. Stop crying "He started it" and just stop responding to his veiled insults.

[Guest AmbientMood]

Excuse me I think this is perfectly legitimate. The fact that Gregor is an offensive little kid has no bearing on my opinion at all, shown by the consistency of my argument.

Much the opposite I find. People with little or no theory knowledge are often the narrow minded fad-lovers - power metal etc.

[Chris]

yes but you just happened to pick power metal as your example, you knew it would wind up ascension and it did. you're just as guilty as they are

[Doc Ascension]

Ambient I hope you're not like this in real life or else you might find some people will take it out of your face.

[Guest AmbientMood]

Ha, you're all full of shit.

[Bobby]

hey guys...be nice...

[-matthEw-]

if you know the "rules" it can make it easier to break them.

or something like that

[Doc Ascension]

Ha' date=' you're all full of shit.[/quote']

ahaha so which "all" are you refering to?

Everyone in the world?

Mate you really will get a hiding with an attitude like that - another example of why 16 year olds shouldn't be allowed the internet.

Next.

[Guest AmbientMood]

ahaha so which "all" are you refering to?

Everyone in the world?

Mate you really will get a hiding with an attitude like that - another example of why 16 year olds shouldn't be allowed the internet.

Next.

I give up. You guys can't hold proper discussion without trying all this one-up-manship turd.

[Frosty Jack]

Childish Argumentative Bollocks

You've been told to stop. So stop. Seriously, all the mods are heartily sick of having to watch everything you people are posting. We have better things to do with our time. Leave it, now, or you won't be featuring on this site for much longer.

[Doc Ascension]

I give up. You guys can't hold proper discussion without trying all this one-up-manship turd.

You give up?? Are you really being serious' date=' you're the one who posted this:

Ha, you're all full of shit.

How about you go read all your recent posts and learn how to not be a petty little shit stirrer.

[Mac Atom]

RIP another thread

why... why... [camera pans outwards and upwards] WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[ray@ladymercedes]

He started it. No he did. No it was you wanker.

Does your teacher know that you're using the shool pc's to post this shite?

[Guest AmbientMood]

He started it. No he did. No it was you wanker.

Does your teacher know that you're using the shool pc's to post this shite?

great, but I've never seen you making any constructive posts.

[Mick Maverik]

I'm still going with intuition, but theory can be useful.

Andy

[Bassdemon]

o_O I play bass. Hit strings. Make boom noise.

[Guest texjamm]

I'm still going with intuition' date=' but theory can be useful.

Andy[/quote']

Tch, tch, tch, how dare you break into this "thread" and post constructive comments relating to the initial post. Whatever will things come to next.......

To rudely interrupt the argument of the last few posts, here's my take on the theory vs. guesswork discussion. Actually its not my idea but stolen from a bassist called Victor Wooten. He views music as a language. The more fluent you are in the language the better you can communicate. When you start learning the theory of a language (verbs, nouns, conjunctives etc.) its tough and pretty boring. Once you start to get a handle on these words and get some practice using them the easier it becomes and the more fluent you are, eventually getting to the point that you don't "think" about how you are communicating but are quite eloquent. The same goes for music, you learn the theory and the scales until you are proficient enough to be able to use your knowledge to express yourself and "play from the heart".

I think the trick is to learn the theoretical side of music, practice the scales etc. but also be aware that theory is only one piece in the jigsaw. Anyone can learn to play scales and arpeggios, its putting them together in a way that is musical that takes the real skill. Just because you know how to fit a zillion notes into each bar, it may not be the right thing for the song!

One of the points thats been raised a couple of times within this thread is that people like to "break the rules". That quirky odd sounding riff that you just came up with is most likely based upon some scale from either Western or Eastern musical backgrounds so youre probably not breaking new ground.

The main thing about music is that whether youre the latest 3 chord wonder or a micro-tonal jazz genius you have fun with it!!

[Guest b-bert]

i think theory definately helps but writing a good song will still take talent and s good ear

[Guest AmbientMood]

Tch' date=' tch, tch, how dare you break into this "thread" and post constructive comments relating to the initial post. Whatever will things come to next.......

To rudely interrupt the argument of the last few posts, here's my take on the theory vs. guesswork discussion. Actually its not my idea but stolen from a bassist called Victor Wooten. He views music as a language. The more fluent you are in the language the better you can communicate. When you start learning the theory of a language (verbs, nouns, conjunctives etc.) its tough and pretty boring. Once you start to get a handle on these words and get some practice using them the easier it becomes and the more fluent you are, eventually getting to the point that you don't "think" about how you are communicating but are quite eloquent. The same goes for music, you learn the theory and the scales until you are proficient enough to be able to use your knowledge to express yourself and "play from the heart".

I think the trick is to learn the theoretical side of music, practice the scales etc. but also be aware that theory is only one piece in the jigsaw. Anyone can learn to play scales and arpeggios, its putting them together in a way that is musical that takes the real skill. Just because you know how to fit a zillion notes into each bar, it may not be the right thing for the song!

One of the points thats been raised a couple of times within this thread is that people like to "break the rules". That quirky odd sounding riff that you just came up with is most likely based upon some scale from either Western or Eastern musical backgrounds so youre probably not breaking new ground.

The main thing about music is that whether youre the latest 3 chord wonder or a micro-tonal jazz genius you have fun with it!! [/quote']

thanks, for putting things into a language that even these tards can understand.

[Mick Maverik]

Tch' date=' tch, tch, how dare you break into this "thread" and post constructive comments relating to the initial post. Whatever will things come to next.......

To rudely interrupt the argument of the last few posts, here's my take on the theory vs. guesswork discussion. Actually its not my idea but stolen from a bassist called Victor Wooten. He views music as a language. The more fluent you are in the language the better you can communicate. When you start learning the theory of a language (verbs, nouns, conjunctives etc.) its tough and pretty boring. Once you start to get a handle on these words and get some practice using them the easier it becomes and the more fluent you are, eventually getting to the point that you don't "think" about how you are communicating but are quite eloquent. The same goes for music, you learn the theory and the scales until you are proficient enough to be able to use your knowledge to express yourself and "play from the heart".

I think the trick is to learn the theoretical side of music, practice the scales etc. but also be aware that theory is only one piece in the jigsaw. Anyone can learn to play scales and arpeggios, its putting them together in a way that is musical that takes the real skill. Just because you know how to fit a zillion notes into each bar, it may not be the right thing for the song!

One of the points thats been raised a couple of times within this thread is that people like to "break the rules". That quirky odd sounding riff that you just came up with is most likely based upon some scale from either Western or Eastern musical backgrounds so youre probably not breaking new ground.

The main thing about music is that whether youre the latest 3 chord wonder or a micro-tonal jazz genius you have fun with it!! [/quote']

See I'm more inclined to go with the "Artist" take on music, opposed to the "Language" one:

An artist has an idea for a painting and has an infinate array of colours and techniques at his / her disposal. The artist uses these to paint a picture. I look on notes as the different colours and octaves as the different shades of the same colour - and the final piece as the finished picture. I don't like it when people scream "rip-off", because 2 artists can paint a fruit bowl, but paint very a different image. I believe musicians can (in the same way) take the same melody and twist it and express it in different ways. Some artists have been trained to paint, some (see the Aberdeen Art Gallery for some examples) just naturally have a good eye, in the same way that some fantastic musicans are the classically trained ones, others just have a good ear and some raw talent.

Andy

[Guest AmbientMood]

See I'm more inclined to go with the "Artist" take on music' date=' opposed to the "Language" one:

An artist has an idea for a painting and has an infinate array of colours and techniques at his / her disposal. The artist uses these to paint a picture. I look on notes as the different colours and octaves as the different shades of the same colour - and the final piece as the finished picture. I don't like it when people scream "rip-off", because 2 artists can paint a fruit bowl, but paint very a different image. I believe musicians can (in the same way) take the same melody and twist it and express it in different ways. Some artists have been trained to paint, some (see the Aberdeen Art Gallery for some examples) just naturally have a good eye, in the same way that some fantastic musicans are the classically trained ones, others just have a good ear and some raw talent.

Andy[/quote']

some have good ear and raw talent, but they will never match the ones with good ear, raw talent and an extensive body of knowledge.

I believe musicians can (in the same way) take the same melody and twist it and express it in different ways

That is the fundamental basis of jazz music.

[Mick Maverik]

some have good ear and raw talent' date=' but they will never match the ones with good ear, raw talent and an extensive body of knowledge.

That is the fundamental basis of jazz music.[/quote']

I disagree, I think the knowledge can help, but just because you don't fully understand something remarkable you do, doesn't make it any less remarkable. If you have talent, you have talent.

Andy

[Guest AmbientMood]

Getting into jazz and theory just opened up a lot of doors for me. I genuinely think I got to a stage where I couldn't get much better without it, having found things quite naturally easy. All of the best in many genres will be clued up on theory, to be good, its unavoidable.

[Doc Ascension]

o_O I play bass. Hit strings. Make boom noise.

hahaha classic!

[Mick Maverik]

All of the best in many genres will be clued up on theory' date=' to be good, its unavoidable.[/quote']

Quite untrue, Marty Friedman is one of the greatest Guitarists alive and his knowledge of theory is minimal. There are plenty other examples, Mark Knopfler for instance. You need to look at the bigger picture my friend.

Andy