The Whinging Bastards (and trolls) Thread

[The Ghost Of Fudge]

bands still refuse invitations to fudge gigs there on the basis "the sound is shit and you don't get a soundcheck". which is a shame i feel.

you might not get a soundcheck, but even radio lucifer were praising the sound onstage when i 'interviewed' the little buggers last week...

[Flash@TMB]

bands still refuse invitations to fudge gigs there on the basis "the sound is shit

You've gotta hand it to whoever keeps spreading that rumour...

We have arguably the finest quality rig commercially available, the new monitors are literally cutting edge technology, a quality backline, tour spec mics, a fully digital setup including EQ, gates, compressors etc, a sound engineer with platinum discs on his wall, and a studio spec live recording systema, and last but not least a room that's the correct shape, fully deadened, closer to the magic dimensions than most, and built out of wood which is a sonically sympathetic material.

Anyone that claims that this doesn't all but guarantee a great sound is either stupid, lying, talking out of their bottom, in a pish sounding band, or a mixture of all four.

The 'name' touring bands that have played have then gone overboard to say good things, and all have firmly stated their desire to return, one even rebooked in advance of their next tour. Some have gone as far as to upload the live recorded tracks on their websites. And recently we saw the commercial release of live recorded album that just got a first rate review from a well known rock journalist.

So, yeah, obviously there's a serious problem. And it better hope that I don't find out where it lives.

People should learn to trust their own ears and not the poisonous fucker with the hidden agenda. Either that or invest in jar of Q-tips

[HeinzHines]

"the sound is shit and you don't get a soundcheck"

When we played there the FOH system seemed good...didnt get to use the monitors, but at a quick glance they looked to have been of some twin 12" variety, so they are of industry standard....

And even if the sound is shit...who cares? They have ash trays on the mic stands! Who else caters for you like this?!

[The Milner]

bands still refuse invitations to fudge gigs there on the basis "the sound is shit and you don't get a soundcheck". which is a shame i feel.

imo, the only bands who refuse due to this are either;

A, too far up their own arses and think they know everything

or

B, just a bunch of fucking twats anyway who have listened to the shit rumours that went about a while ago.

I know a few bands that come into both of these catagories.

Personally speaking the moorings pisses over most "venues" in aberdeen when it comes to equipment, quality of sound, quality of on stage sound and attituted of bar staff and sound engineers. I've never seen two guys as into what they do as Flash and Mark and they do deliver good results almost everytime. (lets be fair no one gets it right %100 of the time as im sure the guy who did the TBS/My Chemical Romance gig in glasgow will tell you) The new moniters give you the best on stage sound any venue in Aberdeen has to offer and this includes the lemon tree and moshulu. They take good care of their equipment ie replace drum heads regularly, the amps are all in excellent condition ect.

As i say the only bands i know who wont play their are doing for stupid reasons but to be fair their loss. If a band wont play because of a sound check they either dont know how to set up properly or they are not ready for a gig in the first place as they feel the need to go over songs before they get on stage.

As flash says NO touring band has had a problem with their set up although all these local bands who think they know better do, hmmm what does that tell us kids??

[Flash@TMB]

When we played there the FOH system seemed good...

And you had the disadvantage of me doing the sound (for the first time in 6 months) because Mark was on holiday.

didnt get to use the monitors' date=' but at a quick glance they looked to have been of some twin 12" variety, so they are of industry standard....[/quote']

Those were loan items that we had for several months while waiting on the new ones to come off the production line. The new monitors are serial numbers 52, 53, 54, and 55. There are these:

http://www.funktion-one.com/res1.htm

http://www.funktion-one.com/microbass.htm (sub for drum fill)

The Resolution 1's are cutting edge in that they have dispensed with the use of the compression drivers which standard in virtually every other high powered loud speaker. A compression driver works by forcing air through a tube to produce those 'squeek', 'squeal' and and 'sssss' and 'ssshhh' frequencencies. Compressed air is very difficult to control, especially close to the speakers limits and is the main cause of feedback on stage - see Live8 Edinburgh for good example LOL. The Resolution 1 also has a sensitivity of well over 100db (1W at 1m) when 92dB is considered decent.

And even if the sound is shit...who cares? They have ash trays on the mic stands! Who else caters for you like this?!

Exactly! See - someone gets it!

[Biz]

The Moorings ROCKS

I HAVE DONE HUNDREDS OF GIGS AND The Moorings is one of my favourite places to see and play in bands-the sound and staff are excellent- go on -visit www.16again.co.uk and gae us anither gig cheeers Biz.

[jon]

I can say in all honesty that the Moorings is our favourite place to play, and part of the reason for that is that the sound is fucking spectacular, both onstage and front of house.

We've got some live recordings and they sound so good people keep asking me if we overdubbed anything, and the monitors are so good I want to fondle myself at the thought of them.

Nuff sed

[The Ghost Of Fudge]

"but ye dinnae get a fooking soundcheck, min, ken?"

neither did radiohead at glasto 97, and they still owned the world that night... and i'll bet their onstage sound wasn't a patch on the moorings

[Flash@TMB]

"but ye dinnae get a fooking soundcheck' date=' min, ken?"

neither did radiohead at glasto 97, and they still owned the world that night... and i'll bet their onstage sound wasn't a patch on the moorings [/quote']

So on to the soundchecks (or lack of them).

The abolition of soundchecks has not produced any noticable degeneration in sound quality.

Bands that have played since the recent introduction of the new monitors have all publically stated that the onstage sound is of the highest quality.

We operate under a stringent noise emissions agreement that restricts high outputs to certain times, days, and to a certain number of hours both at any one time and over the course of a week. This boils down to a straight choice between having the soundchecks or having the gig.

As a result of this we examined the whole concept of soundchecks and whether there were any viable alternatives. The conclusion was that the introduction of the highest quality of sound reproduction facilities would all but eliminate the requirement to check and alter the sound. And that doing so would produce an increase in revenues sufficient to cover the associated expenditure.

Bottom line - Would it sound better with a soundcheck? Yes. Would anyone notice? Unlikely.

1) Technical Details:

i) The rig. One purpose of a soundcheck is to check the rig in relation to the room - mainly for placement, delay speaker, and EQ purposes. The Moorings has an installed rig meaning there is no variation here. The rig is in almost constant use playing the jukebox. The room itself is unchanging. The rig produces a flat frequency response and there is no EQ applied to the stereo bus. Conclusion - there is no requirement to check the performance of the rig in relation to the room.

ii) Feedback. Both the front of house rig and the stage monitors produce a flat frequency response. These systems only produce feedback when driven beyond 95% (~-5dB). For health and safety reasons we are not at liberty to drive the front of house system beyond -10dB (and typicall have it running at between -24dB and -18dB). The new stage monitors are configured in such a way that 0dB on the fader equates to -8dB... which is plenty! There is no feedback on stage.

iii) Sound reproduction. There is no discenable difference between the sound that is input and the sound that is output. We rarely if ever apply any EQ, and when we do it is usually to counteract a 'problem' with the source. Anyone that has listened to our jukbox should acknowledge that the rig has near perfect sound reproduction similar to quality HiFi but with vastly superior dynamic response. In other words the band will sound exactly as they sound without the rig (just louder).

iv) Backline settings. Ask any band why they don't just use the same settings as last time, and most will reply that this does not actually guarantee the same sound, although few will offer any technical explanation (???). The same answer can be elicited by requesting that a band remove it's gear from stage after a soundcheck. The Moorings does not have sufficient stage space to accomodate multiple backlines. It is necessary to remove the gear from the stage between bands, apparently rendering any backline settings null and void. This claim was supported by the fact, that despite undergoing a soundcheck, most bands would invariably recheck and alter their settings after returning their backline to the stage. It may be that settings invariabley become altered during transit and storage.

v) Level check. As it was not uncommon to find that levels had been altered subsequent to soundcheck it was always our practice to level check just prior to the performance.

vi) Line check. Ditto - the equipment had been removed from the stage therefore it was prudent to line check during the performance.

vii) Vocal level. This is quickly and easily adjusted during the first few seconds of the performance.

viii) Monitor levels. The biggest factor here is the level of the backline making it relatively straightforward to ascertain these during level check. Bands will occasionally request alterations during the course of the performance but this occurs to no greater or lesser extent regardless of whether there's been a soundcheck.

ix) Overall. The most common complaint has been the lack of volume in the vocal feed from the stage monitors. This was true regardless of soundcheck. Only 1 band has insisted on a soundcheck, but they later agreed that it was unnessessary. Only 1 band has experienced problems indirectly attributed to lack of soundcheck - we later incorporated procedural changes into the level check to eliminate a reoccurance. The new monitors have addressed the issue of volume.

2) Cost/Benefit Analysis:

i) The Moorings only source of revenue is bar sales. We do not operate 'pay to play', we do not charge promoters for use of our facilities, and we do not share in the admission fees.

ii) The Moorings absorbs the entire cost of the sound engineers time - this is not recharged to the bands or the promoters. Soundchecks mean more engineers time and therefore increased costs.

iii) The bar takings are greater for comparitive nights that do not inolve live music. This is regardless of door charge. Bar takings are greater on a clubnight with a door charge than on a live music night with free admission. We have data going back over 3 years.

iv) Bar takings are significantly reduced during a soundcheck compared with no soundcheck. Customer base was noticably erdoed by soundchecks but has since recovered.

So from this we established that soundchecks produced no source of revenue, had a significant cost attached to them, and depleted existing revenue streams.

[Biz]

Good on ye Flash

It's always a pleasure to be in The Moorings I always meet very interesting people and whatever music is on the sound quality is ALWAYS fine,can't wait to gig with 16again ASA P CHEERS Biz.

[jon]

The absence of soundchecks really isn't a problem. Flash told us to get our sound on stage, an he'd reproduce it out front, and that took no time at all. Most bands who are gigging should know their levels anyway surely?

Not meant as a plug, but if you listen to the live recording we have from the Moorings, the balance is great, and we didn't soundcheck. The guys at The Moorings just really know what they're doing. To be honest, I can't see how anyone could have a bad sound solely due to the PA etc there.

If it ain't a turd, then they will polish it.

[The Ghost Of Fudge]

i'll direct the complaining bastards to this thread in the hope they see sense...

(aye, right)

[Flash@TMB]

Decided to start a new thread for all the nameless, faceless, whinging bastards (and trolls) out there. Have moved some of the posts from the TITP thread into here to get it kicked off. Nothing like a bit of badly informed ill considered destructive criticism to keep things interesting.

Oh - and please feel free to contribute any *shudder* positive experiences.

TIP: Buy shares in duck tape and blue circle cement. Sell shares in fish food...

[Afro Droid]

After playing last night, I'd have to say the Moorings has one of the finest on-stage sounds I've ever had the pleasure of making. Anywhere that makes Jimmy and my "harmonies" sound that good gets a big phat thumbs up from Jonny Lucifer.

[Camie]

You've gotta hand it to whoever keeps spreading that rumour...

I think credit goes to Jamesy.

[Guest Zeenat Aman]

My first gig experience at the 'new' moorings, both as an audience member and onstage player, was very enjoyable indeed. It sounded fab!

Shame about the weirdo with the cigar though.

[Delly]

This is the moorings appreciation thread!

[Bobby]

This is the moorings appreciation thread!

Every thread should be a moorings appreciation thread

[mmw]

I think credit goes to Jamesy.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Hog]

i'll direct the complaining bastards to this thread in the hope they see sense...

(aye' date=' right)[/quote']

Maybe they should know better and you should tell them to fuck off? (ouch,harsh)

Element have played many gigs at the Moorings and not once have we had a problem with the sound. Everything comes through the monitors clearly. Its a good venue, the end...

[mmw]

Maybe they should know better and you should tell them to fuck off? (ouch' date='harsh)

Element have played many gigs at the Moorings and not once have we had a problem with the sound. Everything comes through the monitors clearly. Its a good venue, the end...[/quote']

I still dont class it as a venue to be honest, it's more of a pub that puts on bands.

[trinitynscotland]

Maybe they should know better and you should tell them to fuck off? (ouch' date='harsh)

Element have played many gigs at the Moorings and not once have we had a problem with the sound. Everything comes through the monitors clearly. Its a good venue, the end...[/quote']

Ditto that, its a great venue.....yes venue. Best sound system so far in Aberdeen and the regulars are a great lot (as are the staff).

Never had a problem when the band played there and the sound came through loud and clear (proof with our recorded session).

Don't know what gremlins appeared, but it was a one off thats for sure if it happened at all.

xx

[MTA]

All that has happened recently is, We have improved the sound again. We have done this with the new tonally flat monitors, fully acoustically deadened stage and some special adjustments .

We have just completed the new backline update, which now includes:

Marshall DSL 100 & 4x12

ENGL Powerball & 4x12

Ampeg SVT2 Pro with 4x10

all is ready for any band to use if they so wish.

If anyone wants to try the amps etc come down on a Sunday and have a jam.

Mark

[Flash@TMB]

I still dont class it as a venue to be honest' date=' it's more of a pub that puts on bands.[/quote']

Ha ha I love this thread!

Since your post comes accross as derogatory I'll respond to it.

Fortunately the world isn't classified acording to Jamesy (though he is entitled to his opinion). This issue of what does and doesn't constitute a venue has appeared on many threads regarding many err venues (or not as the case may be).

The general consensus is that a venue means:

i) puts on live music

ii) stage

iii) toilets

iv) installed sound system capable of supporting live music

v) mixing desk

vi) stage lighting rig

vii) stage monitors

viii) microphones and stands

ix) space for punters where the stage is visible and the music audible

Garth

A venue need not be a licensed premises, it may or may not sell either food or drink, and it may or may not have a door charge. If it does have a door charge then it should probably have a ticket hatch.

Not required but to be taken as an indication of the quality of the venue are:

i) house engineer

ii) elements of house backline for use if required

iii) involvement with music promoters

iv) supply of consumables such as sticks, strings, skins.

v) ancillary equipment such as tuner

We have all of the above. Can anyone think of anything else worth adding to this list?

So obviously The Moorings can be classed as a venue but only on Sat/Sun nights. It's not a dedicated venue, it does have other functions.

For instance we have a movie quality projector, a widescreen, and a sound system capable of supporting dolby digital. We have the facility to block out all light, have seats facing the screen, and toilets. Thus when we show a movie, the place technically becomes a cinema.

Furthermore we have a dancefloor, a sound system capable of playing recorded music at high volume, DJ decks, DJ mixer, and a lighting rig dedicated to the dancefloor. Thus when a DJ takes over we effectively become a discoteque/ballroom/dancehall - call it what you will.

And there's more *yawn*. We have a commercial quality 24-track digital live recording setup, a deadened stage area, a house engineer, industry standard microphones, a mixing desk, gates, compressors, EQ, FX, and recording media. Thus very occasionally we function as a recording studio. But 99% of the time we just do live recording.

BUT technically the Moorings is not a pub LOL. Seriously - here's why:

The term 'pub' originates from public house. A public house was originally a brewery's outlet for it's beer. The Moorings has never been a brewery outlet. Instead throughout it's entire life it has been a 'Free House', meaning free of a brewery tie. That can be witnessed now in that we take supplies from multiple brewers. A 16th century coaching house used to stand on the site before the existing building was erected.

The term 'pub' has latterly come to mean somewhere that incorporates a bar, and a lounge, and also serves meals in addition to drink. The Moorings is one room with a bar running down one side. This configuration is traditionally termed 'a bar'. Which is why we are called 'The Moorings Bar'. The only food we serve is the odd intermittent toasties that are prepared elsewhere.

The Moorings is primarily a bar. Most of the time it functions as a bar. And it's a damn good bar!

You don't read so much about the other aspects of The Moorings, chiefly because this website is music related, so we tend to focus more on the venue, dancehall, and live recording facilities. However we are equally active on other fronts, such as CAMRA for instance.

***

I haven't seen you around for a while Jamesy, and like Mark said, things have moved on a bit in recent months.

Something thought provoking... while we are only a P/T venue, we have invested more time, effort, and finances into the quality of our facilities than most other 'dedicated' venues. It's been a long haul, a lot of hard work, involved some difficult decisions, and some extremely complex problems. But it's also been interesting, exciting, challenging, and rewarding.

[Frosty Jack]

Ha ha I love this thread!

Since your post comes accross as derogatory I'll respond to it.

etc...

I think you just kinda agreed with him there, tbh...

You get venues which have a bar. The Moorings is a bar which has a venue.

This is not a bad thing.