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Irresponsible hard core anarchists


CamilleY
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my wife's sister said that saturday had such a brilliant vibe, peacefull and energetic.

now, today, less people, but a more sinister atmos...

do you think the police caused that ? or the crusties that just want a fight ?

I'd err on the crusties being the root of the "problem" here (well...the root of the problem is the G8, eh), but, fighting coppers and smashing up shops ain't going to help the cause, is it...

I thought the encirclement of the crusties on saturday was genius.

can't call the bobbies heavy handed there, just corral the monkies, and disperse them.

twats on both sides, but, jock bobbies in the burgh, cannae beat them for crowd handling.

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Can see it from both sides. . .

Im really un-comfy hearing protestors being labelled anarchists for seemingly just protesting. Can also see it from the police side as it wasnt an official protest. From the news coverage, though, I think the riot police and use of batons was a bit heavy-handed. I would have used a water cannon and incited a wet t-shirt competition. :D

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its a bit of both parties causing a fight, police presence will definately get protesters more worked up and likely to go off on one, but a police presence is pretty much essential at an event like that

i am still amused that people seem to believe that anarchy is a good idea, they dont realise that if anarchy takes effect, there will be no police or law, so no one stopping criminals getting of with assults and thefts and anything else they feel like

David

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Anarchists in the true sense of the word? No.

These folk don't care about existing independently of the state, they just think "anarchy=being a cunt". They've seen clips of Johnny Rotten going "I wanna beeeeee anarchyyyyyyyy. I get pissed, destrooooooooooy" and thought "oh wow, anarchists smash things up! I totally want to be an anarchist min!"

Same with May Day protests - I'm sure most of them are anti-capitalists, but the ones who actually cause the trouble don't give a shit about it. if they did, it's not the police they'd riot against - it'd be McDonalds and Asda.

The proper anarchists would hopefully know fine that violence isn't going to help their cause one little bit.

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Guest Page 99

As said before it will be a mixture of people from both sides, the rent-a-mob anarchists, and the brain dead riot police officers who really only got into the job to bash some hippie's skulls in.

No blame should singularly be pinned to either side....

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how could the police cause this to happen? Police wouldnt go looking for a fight.

i'm trying to work out if this post is sarcastic or not.

i'd say it's problems with both sides. going in with your face covered is quite intimidating but at the same time i'd be quite uncomfortable with the police taking my picture and putting me on a list of troublemakers just for protesting. i also don't buy the idea that because it was an unscheduled protest the police were unprepared and had to send out a message to the protesters that they would respond in force. there is not one time this has worked, all it ever does is escalate the protest into a riot. there was pictures on telly of police chasing retreating protesters and hitting them with batons repeatedly, that's fairly heavy handed. funniest thing was watching the police appear in full riot gear to confront a small number of people dressed as clowns who were entirely unthreatening and had small children with them. a little common sense would help sometimes. second funniest thing was the police encircling the group of protesters on saturday who split from the organised march and then just waiting till they got bored. that was good policing.

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I saw a bit on the news yesterday where they had some reporter dude masquerading (excuse the spelling) as a protestor and he had managed to get in with a group of thugs who were there protesting against the protest (you must of heard of how wiping out 3rd world debt would actually cause more famine & poverty and possibly start some wars) and boy did they look like they meant business!! Tooled up wi knives and chains!! so I think there were definately a few troublemakers there.

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While it is easy to decry from afar what is believed irresponsible behaviour, I was there, and attended the Carnival For Full Enjoyment, and can I say that the action taken by the police was quite disgusting.

Prior to the protest, police were using powers to stop and search small groups of people who they believed may be intent on taking part. I myself was stoppped, my bags searched, and personal details (name, address, date of birth etc) taken. I saw one other group of people being searched too.

Joining the demonstration (one that I should add was carnival like with much dancing and music), we were ( while seeking alternative routes on which to proceed) trapped on one street and boxed in by the police. While causing little trouble (sure, some were involved in jostling the police), we were held on this small steeet for several hours with no means of escape. The police were supported by others in full riot gear, some later with shields. While protesters posed no threat at all to the police, these fully armed police officers were later deployed at one end of the street allowing no exit. Some protesters were allowed to leave one at a time, but in passing through the police line, people were searched and their personal details taken.

While some people may have been intent on confrontation, most were not, and so the police response was heavy handed and without proper justification.

Regarding the confrontations with police on Princes Street, I cannot really comment, but the behaviour of the police is not without question.

Can I also say in defence of many of those who took part, that most are indeed serious, and so believe that action must be taken.

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Last time I checked throwing benches and cobbles about isn't " just protesting..."

Prior to the protest' date=' police were using powers to stop and search small groups of people who they believed may be intent on taking part. I myself was stoppped, my bags searched, and personal details (name, address, date of birth etc) taken. I saw one other group of people being searched too.

.[/quote']

Good. See that's trying to prevent trouble before it starts. Much better than waiting for trouble to start and then trying to contain it....but of course some protestors probably have a problem with the police in the first place, so any excuse to further vent their opinions is probably quite welcome.

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did anyone else see allsystemsfail on channel 4 news, looming in the background and looking annoyed as he always does?

to be honest, the footage i saw of protesters uprooting benches and chucking them at the cops doesn't seem like the most responsible behaviour and looked like the type of thing that would make the cops want to bash them over the heads with batons.

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to be honest' date=' the footage i saw of protesters uprooting benches and chucking them at the cops doesn't seem like the most responsible behaviour and looked like the type of thing that would make the cops want to bash them over the heads with batons.[/quote']

It is quite wrong to focus our attention on the actions of only a few individuals. And I shall say again, that unless a person were there, then I believe they have no right of comment. You can only comment on what you saw on television or in a newspaper, and what you are told is often not the truth, but a distortion of it.

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These folk don't care about existing independently of the state' date=' they just think "anarchy=being a cunt". They've seen clips of Johnny Rotten going "I wanna beeeeee anarchyyyyyyyy. I get pissed, destrooooooooooy" and thought "oh wow, anarchists smash things up! I totally want to be an anarchist min!"

[/quote']

Can I ask whether you have some personal experience of such people? Do you know anyone active in anarchist politics/active in struggle?

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It is quite wrong to focus our attention on the actions of only a few individuals.

Well I think thats the whole point. Everybody knows that the protests went down well on Sat and Sunday so it isn't as if all protestors are being tarred with the same brush. There was a problem on Monday and of course it is going to recieve coverage. It only takes a few people to start trouble and its these people that the people of Edinburgh would have concerns over. You should be discussing why people like this infiltrate raleys/protests rather than moaning about the police trying to do something about it.

Also just because you were there doesn't mean you can dictate wether or not people who weren't there can comment.

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Well I think thats the whole point. Everybody knows that the protests went down well on Sat and Sunday so it isn't as if all protestors are being tarred with the same brush. There was a problem on Monday and of course it is going to recieve coverage. It only takes a few people to start trouble and its these people that the people of Edinburgh would have concerns over. You should be discussing why people like this infiltrate raleys/protests rather than moaning about the police trying to do something about it.

Also just because you were there doesn't mean you can dictate wether or not people who weren't there can comment.

I simply asked that people approach this with an open mind, and not believe everything they see or read on the television or in newpapers. The capitalist media, with interests to protect, will seek to distort and manipulate the truth.

And no infiltration is involved. While I would condemn the use of violence, many who use it do so as they believe it necessary. I do not agree, but there it is.

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capitalist media...

loveing that...

oh, and then they (the BBC?) run Geldof in Africa at 7.30 describing how 12 african girls had to "eat their friend alive" so they wouldn't be killed, and the wee boy who had to beat his friends brains in with a stick, in order not to have it done to himslef...

oops, did that one slip through the net when "protecting their (the BBC) interests" ?...

twat.

go read your militant socialist and shut up.

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Guest Main Agent
I simply asked that people approach this with an open mind, and not believe everything they see or read on the television or in newpapers. The capitalist media, with interests to protect, will seek to distort and manipulate the truth.

as well as orchestrating said events..................

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Can I ask whether you have some personal experience of such people? Do you know anyone active in anarchist politics/active in struggle?

sniff sniff...I smell the talk of AllsystemsFail...

I love oxymorons

"anarchist politics"

( politics : The art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.)

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It is quite wrong to focus our attention on the actions of only a few individuals. And I shall say again' date=' that unless a person were there, then I believe they have no right of comment. You can only comment on what you saw on television or in a newspaper, and what you are told is often not the truth, but a distortion of it.[/quote']

Just because someone didn't see it with their own eyes doesn't make it right.

Either way there is no excuse for such levels of vandalism. I didn't realise throwing up benches was part of the legal right of a "peaceful protest" as soon as violence kicks in it becomes illegal... and throwing benches... to me... is violent... hence wrong.

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While I would condemn the use of violence' date=' many who use it do so as they believe it necessary.[/quote']

Just because they believe it is necessary, doesn't mean it is an acceptable form of protest. Infact, since when was violence ever acceptable? Outside of two people agreeing to fight in a sporting contest, I can't see any form of violence being acceptable and it is certainly not a substitute for reasoned communication.

If people want things to change then they should do so within the realms of society. Politics, the public sphere and our elected representatives meeting to channel their and more importantly our thoughts, is the only way for society to operate fairly, effectively and successfully.

If these people want to be treated seriously and want real change to happen, then they have to operate on the same terms as the rest of society. If we became existentialist due to not agreeing with the ideology's of the Western World, where would that leave us?

What baffles me, is that these protestors choose a time when the worlds richest countries are actively trying to help the poor and needy as a time to kick up a fuss. Surely the point of going to Edinburgh should be to put pressure on the Worlds most powerful men to give more aid and trade to Africa. Do the protesters really think that effectively sticking a collective middle finger up in the leaders faces, will help the leaders reach the 'right' decision?

Lastly, dressing up as a clown and hurling park benches at cops won't get you anywhere. Reasoned intelligent debate will. And don't come with that shit about police brutality. The last thing they want is a fight. They want to do their job peacefully, get out of the shithole they have been placed in and get back to their families and living like normal people.

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While I would condemn the use of violence' date=' many who use it do so as they believe it necessary.[/quote']

Please.

If you condemn it, how can you even associate or defend the people who have been doing it?

You don't need to see conspiracies about the New World Order and all the rest of it to see that people do and will go to protests to cause trouble. I'm sorry, but from my comfortable perspective, I see some "anarchists" smashing stuff up. What am I supposed to think, especially when these "anarchrists" have travelled to do it?

I suspect the reason they resort to violence is because they don't have the brains to debate with people peacefully, instead they resort to their textbook opinions while smashing up McDonalds..wow, that's really going to see a change in the world.

If you want to change the world, get out there and change it, don't fucking sit around breaking stuff because Daddy Blair and Uncle Bush won't let you have it your way.

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It is quite wrong to focus our attention on the actions of only a few individuals. And I shall say again' date=' that unless a person were there, then I believe they have no right of comment. You can only comment on what you saw on television or in a newspaper, and what you are told is often not the truth, but a distortion of it.[/quote']

Since you were stuck down an alley for hours what exactly did you see? Not as much as the media I'd guess.

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It is quite wrong to focus our attention on the actions of only a few individuals. And I shall say again' date=' that unless a person were there, then I believe they have no right of comment. You can only comment on what you saw on television or in a newspaper, and what you are told is often not the truth, but a distortion of it.[/quote']

of course i have a right to comment on the images i saw on tv. that's like saying you have no right to comment on poverty in africa unless you've been there personally and seen it. and the actions of a few individuals uprooting benches and chucking them at the cops is what sparked off all the violence to begin with. which is why the protests on saturday went off entirely peacefully and without a hitch.

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