I have to agree with this guy (Hugh-lazz). at the end of the day you can have all the chops and rudaments in the book and be the biggest show off in thw world but it won't get you gigs and 99% of the time you won't even use it! Ringo starr is often said to be a "crap" drummer - what a load of rubbish!! first of all he was in teh most sucsessful band of all the time - the Beatles!! secondly if you listen to any Beatles song the drums are perfect for the song and thats the main point! it gets your feet tapping at the end of the day. and ringo, along with probally a very small colection of drummers like John Bonham and Buddy, has probally got more people to pick up a pair of sticks than most drummers in history! a great drummer plays for the music and then, at the right time and place, can come out of his/her shell and show off a bit. drummers like i mentioned, Bonzo, Paice, Steve White etc, can all do this. I went on a drum course with Steve White a few years back and he tought that you played for the music first, then for yourself second and drummers everywhere should remeber that. Drummerboy