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[Dave]

Holland
Scotland
Norway
Macedonia
Iceland

Not bad. England have Croatia again...

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Dave

Holland
Scotland
Norway
Macedonia
Iceland

Not bad. England have Croatia again...

Aye not bad. One thing is worrying me a bit, (tho I'm getting ahead of myself and perhaps have it wrong anyway).

Given we in the only 5 team group, doesn't that mean the 2nd place team from our group is most likely to miss out on the 8 2nd place play-off places? - i.e. the teams from the other groups can achieve a maximum of 30 points, but our group can only achieve a maximum of 24 points.

Like I say perhaps I have it wrong, and even if not I suppose we should worry about that possibility when and if it happens.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Aye not bad. One thing is worrying me a bit, (tho I'm getting ahead of myself and perhaps have it wrong anyway).

Given we in the only 5 team group, doesn't that mean the 2nd place team from our group is most likely to miss out on the 8 2nd place play-off places? - i.e. the teams from the other groups can achieve a maximum of 30 points, but our group can only achieve a maximum of 24 points.

Like I say perhaps I have it wrong, and even if not I suppose we should worry about that possibility when and if it happens.

The other groups only count results between 5 teams. I think the pool 6 teams results aren't counted towards qualification, it's either that or the team that finishes 6th. I'd say the former is fairer though.

[RossP]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Aye not bad. One thing is worrying me a bit, (tho I'm getting ahead of myself and perhaps have it wrong anyway).

Given we in the only 5 team group, doesn't that mean the 2nd place team from our group is most likely to miss out on the 8 2nd place play-off places? - i.e. the teams from the other groups can achieve a maximum of 30 points, but our group can only achieve a maximum of 24 points.

Like I say perhaps I have it wrong, and even if not I suppose we should worry about that possibility when and if it happens.

The results against the team that comes last in all the other groups aren't counted when discovering the playoff places, so we have the same chance as the other groups.

Lets just win our group and let holland worry about the second place playoffs

[bob bouma]

Originally Posted by Graeme

Are Holland any good these days...and Norway?

God this’ll be fun. Scotland – Netherlands. I have to start practising my Dutch Football chants.

We (the Dutch) do have a really good team but I think we’re suffering from the same problem we always have (as we saw when Holland played Luxemburg): They only get psyched up for the ‘big’ games, so Scotland could win if the Dutch have that ‘oh this’ll be an easy one’ thing (thinking about the SIX ZERO WE BEAT YOU WITH). Then again, Van Basten has definitely got the ability to fire these boys into playing well.

It’s a bit weird though cause I’ll be supporting both theams for all their matches (except against Holland) but I still want Holland to go through obviously...

[Jamie]

Ah! That makes things a bit more even then. And yeah, you are right Ross, no reason why we can't be looking to win the group.

[Camie]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Ah! That makes things a bit more even then. And yeah, you are right Ross, no reason why we can't be looking to win the group.

Although I agree with the mentality, it was the same attitude that I think got us beat against Georgia.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Camie

Although I agree with the mentality, it was the same attitude that I think got us beat against Georgia.

Nah what got us beat by Georgia was a) old firm players calling in sick so they could play in their big game at the weekend and b) other old firm players i.e. Ferguson doing a disappearing act in the middle of the pitch. Our big players didn't play, that's why we got beat.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Chris

Nah what got us beat by Georgia was a) old firm players calling in sick so they could play in their big game at the weekend and b) other old firm players i.e. Ferguson doing a disappearing act in the middle of the pitch. Our big players didn't play, that's why we got beat.

You beat me too it there, plus a couple of players who were on bookings - Ferguson, Kenny Miller - shirking tackles as if their being available for the Italy game was more important than getting a result v Georgia (irritating to watch but didn't really affect the result), and recalling Fletcher when he obviously wasn't ready.

Don't get me wrong re the winning the group. I'm not saying that we will walk the group, or can afford to be complacent by any means ( I think it will be tough, and that Macedonia are a real obstacle - didn't they beat Croatia a week ago?), just that we can go into the group with the objective of winning it as plan A, and 2nd place as plan B, rather than thinking we are only capable of finishing 2nd to Holland.