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[Woolies]

Originally Posted by Stichman

That's because Hamas purposefully hide themselves in civillian areas. It's completely unfair and untrue to say Israel indiscriminately bombs civillians. The terrorists they are targetting hide within highly populated areas; it's the fault of Hamas that there are so many unecessary civillian casualties.

Okay, I retract my "the indiscriminate bombing of a civilian population" and replace with "Israel not giving two shits about murdering innocent bystanders when targetting security threats".

A common argument from there mentions "well the Hamas are targetting innocent civilians" and the rebuttal is "well, aye - that's what makes it fair to call them terrorists, the bad guys. Governments, armies, Israel for example, are generally expected to play the part of good guys and protect non-combatants life & property. These air strikes will always destroy, injure or kill more than the target."

Imagine if the UK government had launched air strikes on Londonderry, managing to destroy a whole row of terraced housing & their resident families in an attempt to kill two or three bombers living at number four.
I don't believe the scale of Israel's action against the threats is anywhere near justifiable.

[Stichman]

Originally Posted by Woolies

Okay, I retract my "the indiscriminate bombing of a civilian population" and replace with "Israel not giving two shits about murdering innocent bystanders when targetting security threats".

A common argument from there mentions "well the Hamas are targetting innocent civilians" and the rebuttal is "well, aye - that's what makes it fair to call them terrorists, the bad guys. Governments, armies, Israel for example, are generally expected to play the part of good guys and protect non-combatants life & property."

Imagine if the UK government had launched air strikes on Londonderry, managing to destroy a whole row of terraced housing & resident families in an attempt to kill two or three bombers living at number four.
I don't believe the scale of Israel's action against the threats is anywhere near justifiable.

Aye, Israel are in a lose-lose situation. They can't do nothing whilst huge swathes of their population live with the threat of being rocketed from across the border. Yet, if they try and act, they are accused of using disproportionate force.

That's the problem with fighhing terrorists. Hamas deliberately target civillians, it's them that don't give a shit. Equally, they evidently don't give a shit if Palestinian civillians are killed. Hamas were repeatedly warned by Israel and Egypt that the continuation of rocketing at the border would lead to an Isreali backlash. They chose to ignore those warnings, so it is them who are accountable.

Speaking of disproportion, it's a bit much to compare the Gaza strip with Northern Ireland. It's not as if hundreds of rockets were being launched into England every week. If they had been, don't you think the government would have acted?

[Panda Strong]

I don't think he's comparing the amount of rockets with the conflict in Ireland but more the 'no end in sight' idea.

The use of force is probably the grayest area of international law but it is commonly recognised that a country is allowed to protect itself with proportionate force. You just need to take a look at the death toll to see that ain't happening. I guess it's just more evidence that you don't mess around with Israel.

[Stichman]

Originally Posted by Panda Strong

I don't think he's comparing the amount of rockets with the conflict in Ireland but more the 'no end in sight' idea.

The use of force is probably the grayest area of international law but it is commonly recognised that a country is allowed to protect itself with proportionate force. You just need to take a look at the death toll to see that ain't happening. I guess it's just more evidence that you don't mess around with Israel.

So Israel should just indiscriminately fire rockets back over the border?

Originally Posted by Stichman

So Israel should just indiscriminately fire rockets back over the border?

The whole war in that region is rediculous, killing over false idols.

The only way in which I think this whole thing is working is this...

is it possible hamas kills civilians so they can't breed, no breeding means no babies, no babies means a lot less soldiers. Israel have possibly figured this out and are doing the same.

[Tubthumper]

The Gaza situation will never end.

[Alkaline]

Originally Posted by Tubthumper

The Gaza situation will never end.

I actually agree with you. There has been fighting in the Middle-East as long as there has been people there. It seems to be something that will never be sorted out or tackled in a sensible manner and other countries wading in hasn't helped other than to garner negative responses from their own residents. You can't please everybody.

[Tubthumper]

It quiets down every so often, but there's nothing to suggest that the whole thing will ever cease.

[Bigsby]

Originally Posted by Stichman

That's the problem with fighhing terrorists. Hamas deliberately target civillians, it's them that don't give a shit. Equally, they evidently don't give a shit if Palestinian civillians are killed. Hamas were repeatedly warned by Israel and Egypt that the continuation of rocketing at the border would lead to an Isreali backlash. They chose to ignore those warnings, so it is them who are accountable.

Confucius (or maybe it was Bobby Gillespie) say "One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist".

[Murrr]

Originally Posted by Tubthumper

The Gaza situation will never end.

They'll never get out of this mess if all they do is continue to fling rockets back and forth at each other. Both sides are as bad as each other, to be honest. I have a certain degree of sympathy for the Palestinians but I find it increasingly hard to justify it with every violent response they make. Two wrongs do not make a right, especially when civilians end up losing their lives.