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[Hog]

I'm sure that nobody wishes a flesh eating disease to kill a person.

Playing devils advocate. I don't think it's a simple as a) Peer-pressure b) Abuse

c) Mental illness
d) A predetermined addictive nature.

[Lester Burnham]

Originally Posted by french_disko

How do you differentiate as to the ones you think shouldn't be left to "live out that hell on their own" to the ones you think deserve to die of a flesh eating disease? Is it purely down to their social background? Would you only help people after they prove how horrendous their lives have been?

Certainly people "choose to use" in some instances but it hardly means they deserve to die horribly.

There basically isn't any way to differentiate. Which is why the people who need help are so difficult to identify. You can only look at the history of any *reported* instances of abuse... which obviously still bares no resemblance to reality in many cases.

I suppose my argument was simply on a moral level. Those who have done it to themselves and those who feel they have no choice.

Despite perhaps the bad way I phrased my initial post... the bottom line is that if someone is addicted, I doubt they'll care if there is a chance of them getting the virus... their main concern will be if they can get the drug or not.

[Lester Burnham]

Originally Posted by Hogisbald

I'm sure that nobody wishes a flesh eating disease to kill a person.

Playing devils advocate. I don't think it's a simple as a) Peer-pressure b) Abuse

c) Mental illness
d) A predetermined addictive nature.

I agree completely. I was just using examples of extremities for the sake of argument (as that's what people were throwing at me) and also so I didn't end up writing an essay.

I'm not so sure about d) though. It could help to fuel the problem but surely it could be channelled elsewhere (though this is assuming the person is aware of the fact they have an addictive personality and would probably need some assistance).

[french_disko]

Originally Posted by Lester Burnham

There basically isn't any way to differentiate. Which is why the people who need help are so difficult to identify.

I'd say that anyone with an addiction like this requires help. Whether they accept this help is the hard part.

Originally Posted by Lester Burnham

I suppose my argument was simply on a moral level. Those who have done it to themselves and those who feel they have no choice.

People may choose to take heroin but no one chooses to be an addict.

Do you drink? I'm sure you don't expect to become an alcoholic or have cirrosis of the liver. Might happen though.

Do you drive above the speed limit? I'm sure you don't expect to get caught doing this & fined or to cause an accident. Might happen though.

Originally Posted by Lester Burnham

Despite perhaps the bad way I phrased my initial post... the bottom line is that if someone is addicted, I doubt they'll care if there is a chance of them getting the virus... their main concern will be if they can get the drug or not.

Precisely. That's addiction for you.

[Lester Burnham]

Originally Posted by french_disko

People may choose to take heroin but no one chooses to be an addict.

Do you drink? I'm sure you don't expect to become an alcoholic or have cirrosis of the liver. Might happen though.

Do you drive above the speed limit? I'm sure you don't expect to get caught doing this & fined or to cause an accident. Might happen though.

I do drink. However, I drink in moderation and am fully aware of the fact it's not the same as many class A drugs (it's not illegal for a start). I would never touch anything like heroin etc because I am fully aware that as soon as you take it your judgement on how well you can control your intake can completely go to shit. It's not a risk I'd be willing to take under any circumstances whatsoever. I think this is where a huge problem is... people take the drug whilst thinking that they can control it. In truth, it's almost impossible. The drug controls you and you become a different person.

My own drinking is very much controlled and if I feel I've had too much to drink one week then I have no issue with staying on the diet cokes for a night. I have also quite happily gone months without drinking and should I ever have children I won't bat an eyelid at the idea of saying goodbye to booze for 9 months. I enjoy having a drink but I don't ever "need" to have one.

[BobbyTheGorilla]

Originally Posted by Lester Burnham

My feelings on the subject are a little bit less straight forward that I maybe initially implied. My general feelings towards drugs where you *know* before you even touch them that they will have you completely hooked, they take over your life and most probably destroy any relationships you have with anyone who also isn't using… is that you should never touch them.

Yeah, I agree. Because it's not like I've ever made one mistake or a seriously bad decision in my entire life either

And all that stuff about rehabilitation, forgiveness, support and 2nd chances - all a much of tree hugging hippy crap if you ask me. Lets have flogging for petty offenders, hangings for major ones, and flesh eating viruses for junkies... Nice eh?



On a serious note, I don't know what it is but I'm beginning to think our society has become completely fucked up and people don't really have much empathy for each other any more. As for heroin addicts, I say copy the Swiss. Years ago I knew a recovering drug addict and I asked him why he did it in the first place, his answer was simply that "it was a mistake". We all make mistakes, it's just the consequences that are different.

[Jeanette]

Alcohol can do just as much damage as heroin or any other illegal drug for that matter.

I can't be bothered to type a big long paragraph on my views on this, especially at 5pm on New Year's Eve.

I was rather annoyed when I read this thread last night and it was all 'kill the junkie' style... so least there's been some counter arguement. Guess I can see it from both sides since, as a children and families social worker, you can clearly see the damage it does to the families and the children inparticular but also the pain and suffering that it causes the individual user. You can't pigeonhole all drug users. Each has a different story.

[milner]

Originally Posted by Lester Burnham

I do drink. However, I drink in moderation and am fully aware of the fact it's not the same as many class A drugs (it's not illegal for a start). I would never touch anything like heroin etc because I am fully aware that as soon as you take it your judgement on how well you can control your intake can completely go to shit. It's not a risk I'd be willing to take under any circumstances whatsoever. I think this is where a huge problem is... people take the drug whilst thinking that they can control it. In truth, it's almost impossible. The drug controls you and you become a different person.

Just like drink can do, but folk seem to think that drinking heaps isnt as bad. Im not condoning heroin addicts here but i dont see why they get treated worse than someone who is an alcoholic. You speak as someone who despises drugs and has never taken them yet you seem to know how heroin can affect a person the first time they take it, the simple fact of the matter is you can get addicted to anything just as quickly as heroin if you approach taking the substance in the wrong manner. I know quite a few people who enjoy supposivly highly addictive substances at the weekend yet dont have to take them everyday or anything, moderation is as affective with drugs as it is with drink.

[Kaizen]

Ok, I'm not going to say "your wrong" or "your right" to anyone here, but this is my personal view. Everyone should be given their chance. Wether they grew up in a drug den or a mansion and wether they started at age 8 or 68. Everyone should be given their chance to sit down with a counseller and talk it over and if they want to be given help, they can be given it. Infact, I'm in a nice kinda mood, if they make a fair go at it but end up back on the drugs, give them a second go. However, If the government spend thousands of pounds on someone to try and get them off their addiction, put them through rehab, give them all the counselling they could need and then they walk straight back to their dealer, fuck them. Sorry if it seems harsh, but I'm all about free choice and I'm a very strong willed person. If they would rather plunge their families, friends and everyone around them into depression over them, not to mention the social strain caused by any crimes they may or may not commit in order to fund their addiction, they deserve the drugs and everything that comes with them.

But thats just my opinion. No one should be left out, but society simply cant afford to just throw away time and money that could be better spent helping people that actually want the help...

x

[Le Stu]

I had a pretty crappy experience subletting from a random dude who turned out to be a raving smackhead, so I have both contempt and sympathy in equal measures for them. It doesn't help to give them any justification for their problem. The cruel to be kind solution is just to section them and let them cold turkey under medical supervision.