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[pogofish]

Originally Posted by KimyReizeger

Have you just exposed the biggest scam in the history of education?

I feel you're suggesting that the higher standard of teaching in public schools has no impact on exam performance (a ridiculous view, if this is indeed what you are saying),

Hardly! The discrepancy between the way public schools inspected themselves & the higher standards in the state sector was the main reason they got pulled into line. The number of public schools actually inspected since then was pretty low, the last time I looked anyway.

Either way, I have less of a problem with the way the state inspectorate conducted themselves - they tended to be drawn from some of the most professional, experienced & respected educators out there & were never slow to pick-up on the failings of any establishment under inspection.

Judging a school's performance solely by its exam results is an exceptionally poor measure. Especially where state/private comparisons are concerned - for a whole lot of reasons, selectivity & relative aspirations to begin with. Chalk & cheese.

As for the standard of teaching being better in public schools, nope - most struggle to meet even very average state levels (& even though I have plenty of grumbles about that, I do accept it is better than nothing) & don't bank on them being any better funded either. Apart from at the very top of the pile. In fact the reason many private schools specialise is because they cannot hope to provide the same level of investment over the broader curriculum. Remember that the big-name schools, Eton, Harrow & the like are not very representative of the bulk of the private sector.

Another thing that really pissed me off about public schools was the way they weeded-out many potentially underperforming kids before examination & dumped them back on the state system - another pretty brutal way of keeping the results good. Saw any number of them in my time in schools n'all.

[pogofish]

Originally Posted by RockAustin

You can't get rid of schools without a viable and fundable alternative.

Scottish education, from my experience, is pretty good. But then my parents were able to support me and gave me good discipline.

Does what you were doing have a job title... was it a specialised teaching role or supporting teachers or kids having difficulties?

These problems have more to do with the people controlling the direction of education and the purse strings rather than principle of schools.

You like what you are used to maybe? Personally, conventional schooling was quite happy to remainder me as dyslexic & a close-personal relation of the antichrist. It took a solicitor, a lot of bloody mindedness & several years of non-mainstream education to get back into one. I don't think it was ultimately worth it & believe me, eventually coming to work in schools was something that never sat easy!


I held a variety of jobs/roles over several years. Starting with course development work for the changes then in progress, after that I branched into educational/behavioural problems in kids & eventually that role was expanded to include teacher training & support in-class. I'm in a more specialised job in higher ed now but again, that has begun to broaden in the last couple of years. If there is anything puts unis above schools, IMO it is the issue of choice & diversity of approaches to teaching.

I'd agree Scottish education was good for its time & has a good foundation but I have issues with its compulsion & the one-size approach that has dominated for the last century. I'd also completely disagree that school is the only viable way to educate a child. What we have today is as much a historic device to satisfy the demands of employers & an economic system now gone & to validate the state funding of the university system as anything that had needs of the child at heart.

ETA. Fully agree that many of the folk directing education have lost the place. To the point where they have utterly lost touch with what they are required to provide.

[KimyReizeger]

Well, I'm just going on the evidence of a couple of people I know. One went to Hutchesons where 30% of the year got 5 A's and the teachers were generally charismatic sorts, several of which were published authors, the headmaster had once edited a major newspaper etc etc..

The reason I use Highers is because they are an external exam, so I don't see why they can't be a reasonable indicator of school performance.

[pogofish]

Hutchesons - Maybe a good example of what I mean. It has recently been under fire for making misleading comparisons (& even internal ones) on its educational standards whilst the change in evaluation methods have seen it drop from virtually the top spot in Scotland to a still creditable but much lower place in the league tables.

Never mind the (possibly not unconnected) issues of poor staff performance & morale as well.

The problem with Highers is that although external, they are by no means a universal qualification & there are many pupils who will have no need of nor desire to sit them, so any comparison with less/differently aspirational establishments (which may still be educationally excellent in other ways) becomes highly skewed.

There is also a whole lot more to an education than simply gaining a sheaf of exams.

[KimyReizeger]

they are by no means a universal qualification & there are many pupils who will have no need of nor desire to sit them

What else do people in Scotland gain entry into University through, bar the odd crank sitting A levels?

[PVH]

I hate to bring another debate into play, but as a nation(s) do we under appreciate the education we are provided with? I think that we really dont understand how lucky we are.

[pogofish]

Originally Posted by KimyReizeger

What else do people in Scotland gain entry into University through, bar the odd crank sitting A levels?

There are a whole range of ways into uni/further education now & using uni entry as a measure of educational effectiveness again only looks at a narrow part of the picture.

[KimyReizeger]

Originally Posted by pogofish

There are a whole range of ways into uni/further education now & using uni entry as a measure of educational effectiveness again only looks at a narrow part of the picture.

Yeah, I'm not really trying to discuss what form education should take, nor the real purpose or value of exams, I was just contesting your initial statement regarding Public schools and lower grades.

[KimyReizeger]

Originally Posted by PVH

I hate to bring another debate into play, but as a nation(s) do we under appreciate the education we are provided with? I think that we really dont understand how lucky we are.

Yeah, we are comparatively lucky, but we could always be luckier..