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[PalmerEldritch]

Originally Posted by Dave

Funny, that's exactly what I thought the councillors did yesterday. I've no doubt that the Scottish Government/Executive will make the correct decision in the interests of the people of the North East, and Scotland as a whole and overrule the spineless wimps on the council.

Spineless wimps? On the contrary - these councillors have stood up to the arrogant voices of the "business community" throughout the North East of Scotland, instead choosing to side with the wee man. How on bloody earth do you draw the conclusion that standing up to Trump is spineless?

Originally Posted by Dave

This whole situation is a test case for Scotland. As we move towards greater financial self-sufficiency, we have to make tough decisions and some sacrifices that may seem unpleasant to some. Our heritage and landscape are two of our biggest assets, and we should maximise their profitability wherever possible.

Our heritage and landscape are indeed our greatest assets, which is why they ought to be preserved for future generations to enjoy. Seriously, you're "logic" is stark raving BONKERS.

Originally Posted by Dave

The message the Infrastructure Committee put out to the rest of the world yesterday was "you can't do business in Aberdeen". In a global economy, chances like this come around very rarely, and if they're not acted upon our competitors reap the benefits and we get left behind.

Didn't Trump's head henchman say something just like that? Way to form your own opinions, Chief.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Stripey

yeah maximise the profitability by destroying our heritage and landscape.

Our heritage and landscape are resources which must be exploited. Maximising their potential and profitability doesn't necessarily mean their destruction. There is very little else in Scotland that can be relied upon to provide outside investment.

Originally Posted by Stripey

No, that's the message (verbatim) that trumps spokeman came out with after the vote.

Yup, and he's right. What's more, he'll repeat that message to other businessmen in America and elsewhere, and we'll suffer economically as a result. Unless, of course, the council and the Scottish Government intervene. Which I have no doubt they will.

Trump's people are playing this very well. They're not going to give up years of planning just because of a few nimbies. People got a shock when they saw the tiny-minded decision by the infrastructure committee yesterday, and the backlash in Trump's favour has made the rest of the country sit up and take notice. I'm still willing to bet this project will go ahead.

[Stripey]

Originally Posted by Dave

Our heritage and landscape are resources which must be exploited. Maximising their potential and profitability doesn't necessarily mean their destruction. There is very little else in Scotland that can be relied upon to provide outside investment.

This point of view shows a fundamental disrespect for not only the natural environment but the people of scotland and their potential. What scotland, and the northeast needs is improved education and diversification of higher education programmes (particularly away from the oil industry - look at success of the IT sector in ireland for example) in order to foster a homegrown, progressive, sustainable and environmentally sound economy.

Selling out to foreign investors on projects like this is futile and counterproductive - just compare the difference in how scotland and norway have handled their oil industry, and which country has come off better as a result.

edit> also, calling trumps project "investment" is pushing it, it's naked exploitation.

[Bob]

I would like the thank the Evening Express for backing me up on this issue and expressing the real opinions of the vast majority in Aberdeen who are overwhelmingly in support of this fantastic and exciting project.

[PalmerEldritch]

Originally Posted by Dave

Our heritage and landscape are resources which must be exploited. Maximising their potential and profitability doesn't necessarily mean their destruction.

And that's exactly what will happen if this goes ahead - the destruction of one of the North East's most diverse and unique landscapes, a place to be bloody proud of - and you would gladly discard it for dubious promises of wealth? Insane.

[PalmerEldritch]

Originally Posted by Bob

I would like the thank the Evening Express for backing me up on this issue and expressing the real opinions of the vast majority in Aberdeen who are overwhelmingly in support of this fantastic and exciting project.

One trick pony springs to mind.

It is nice to know that the councillors are mostly a bunch of idiots, hopefully this will be appealed and overturned

[Bob]

Originally Posted by PalmerEldritch

One trick pony springs to mind.

I would like to thank you for calling me a one trick pony and supporting this fantastic project.

[lepeep]

Originally Posted by Bob

I would like the thank the Evening Express for backing me up on this issue and expressing the real opinions of the vast majority in Aberdeen who are overwhelmingly in support of this fantastic and exciting project.

yeah...I can see why you like "reporting" like that...

"you traitors"...nothing like unbias reporting of facts in a story.
I think the EE should be sued by the coucilors...they certainly ain't traitors in my eyes.

if that's the level of journalism in Aberdeen, no wonder we shouldn't be doing business with anyone (...hold on..imagine if the RSPB wanted to build a sanctuary there...I wonder if that would get the wonderful backing a exploititive business man would muster?)

no.

Come to think of it...I wonder if and when this thing gets overturned, will all the people wanting to build eco / sustainable houses / projects on "normal" land get the go a head?............not enough money from pesky individuals to merit that, no doubt.

everyone's in love with money hoooorah.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by PalmerEldritch

Spineless wimps? On the contrary - these councillors have stood up to the arrogant voices of the "business community" throughout the North East of Scotland, instead choosing to side with the wee man. How on bloody earth do you draw the conclusion that standing up to Trump is spineless?

They're spineless because they kow-towed to the views of a few outspoken nimbies who made their views, and more importantly their voting intentions very clear. They took the path of least resistance rather than the one that would benefit the majority of their constituents.

Originally Posted by PalmerEldritch

Our heritage and landscape are indeed our greatest assets, which is why they ought to be preserved for future generations to enjoy. Seriously, you're "logic" is stark raving BONKERS.

Judging by the amount of people who visit the Menie sands, future generations aren't going to give a hoot about the place. I was down there in the middle of July, in baking sunshine, and there wasn't another soul to be seen within half a mile in any direction. I'm sure if you asked the majority of Aberdonians to point to where Menie was on a map of Scotland before this development was proposed, very few could have done so. Even now most people I talk to about this have only the vaguest idea.

So basically, we have a piece of deserted wilderness, home to a few birds and mice, and the occasional dog-walker, which could be transformed into a multi-million pound enterprise that gives Aberdeen a world-class facility and greater exposure and prestige on the world stage. Meanwhile, the rest of the dune system stretching up the NE coast is untouched and will remain ignored and forgotten about for generations to come.

Originally Posted by PalmerEldritch

Didn't Trump's head henchman say something just like that? Way to form your own opinions, Chief.

To be honest it was completely unintentional, and if you look back on this thread (which has been running for several months now) you'll find that I'm perfectly capable of forming my own opinions.

Originally Posted by Stripey

This point of view shows a fundamental disrespect for not only the natural environment but the people of scotland and their potential. What scotland, and the northeast needs is improved education and diversification of higher education programmes (particularly away from the oil industry - look at success of the IT sector in ireland for example) in order to foster a homegrown, progressive, sustainable and environmentally sound economy.

We need that as well, but the fact is without investment from overseas this country cannot sustain itself in the long term. Ireland have no qualms about exploiting their history and heritage, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were the ones to welcome Trump with open arms if this project actually does fail.

Originally Posted by Stripey

Selling out to foreign investors on projects like this is futile and counterproductive - just compare the difference in how scotland and norway have handled their oil industry, and which country has come off better as a result.

As you know, Scotland's oil revenue was largely channeled to London during the boom. It was used to help finance failing nationalised industries initially, and to pay for the short-term effects of the much-needed Thatcher reforms of the 1980's. To compare Scotland and Norway is pointless, as in reality Norway's revenue helped to maintain an already benign economy in a country of less than four million inhabitants, rather than being used to rescue a basketcase economy in a country of nearly sixty million.

Originally Posted by Stripey

edit> also, calling trumps project "investment" is pushing it, it's naked exploitation.

I don't think Trump's ever been shy or ashamed of the fact he's only in it for the money, nor should he be. Business is about exploiting opportunities, of which Menie is a splendid example.