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Originally Posted by Twojoe

Yup! It's the young folk running it is what it needs. Someone with some gumption at least. Right, consider me applauding from a distance!

*heads for wine and good music*

J

The co-ordinater of the campaign is actually, and I'm sure she won't mind me saying this, (as I'm sure you won't mind me saying this ), a mid-40s self-proclaimed vigilante who has been making sure we abide by the correct processes at all times! Nae yellow buckets

Members of the public were approaching me today to say in conspirational tones, "I hear there will be a vigil on castlegate". Seeing as a protest wasn't started by core members of the campaign, I don't see how it can generate bad publicity for the cause!

Another thing to say in response to those who are cynical about the lemon tree using the money to break-even then continue to struggle: last year, the Scottish Arts Council cut is annual funding which totalled £800,000 from 2002 to 2006. The £150,000 can be seen as a direct knock-on effect of this.

With this in mind, I'm sure a few will know that new posts taken up in the last year, and new strategies put into motion, in finance, marketing and of our music and comedy programmer Isla Angus made the outlook very promising. The Complete Stone Roses were the last *ever* tribute band still left over from the Andy Shearer era (unless you count Nouvelle Vague and Hayseed Dixie, which I wouldn't). Some very exciting events on the horizon. Also, I'm sure IMP would agree that the Lemon Tree and more particularly Isla, were instrumental in helping them bring fantastic bands , particularly on the scale of the Boredoms to Aberdeen. Obviously this is in relation to people's concerns over a 'music venue', it does not touch on the success of development projects (externally funded) and mid-range theatre marketing over the last couple of the years.

I realise the above has nothing to do with the structure of how the organisation was run, and I'm sure if the venue reopened there would be a huge demand for accountability, re-organisation and artistic vision. Hall Harper, chairman of the board, said on Nov 24th that the organisation was reviewing the way it was perceived and how it operated.

Originally Posted by prof_lofi

Hi Everyone,

Been holding off posting because of how personally sensitive I feel about the loss of the Lemon Tree and all that it means to me. It's hard to read some of the comments here that seem naive at best, if not purposefully hurtful. But since I post here for all my shows, I guess it would be bad manners to not at least comment once on the situation.

First, this isn't going to be some balanced statement, not at all. I had a very personal stake in the Lemon Tree even if I saw it's flaws and handicaps. I've never worked with such amazing people. And seriously, I'm not just saying this out of some 'the ship is sinking, say something poetic' sensibility...It's sincere when I say that the staff there are some of the most genuine and committed people I've ever worked with.

But having said that, I do understand many of the comments on here, from the 'don't pump money into a leaky bucket' to the 'best venue Aberdeen's ever seen' and all the rest. At one time I've had most of those thoughts as well, and of course if you're only exposure to the Lemon Tree is as a music venue, how can you not see it in only these terms?

But much of that changed when I actually started working there. Now,---I know that's not an option that everyone can have and isn't the point, but once I was exposed to the shear volume and diversity of work that was occurring as a result of the Lemon Tree, I realized that most of my opinions were being formed from a very narrow perspective and misconception of what the Lemon Tree actually was and I had no idea of the scope and amount of work and love that the L.Tree pumped out to the community.

Yes, I said love and it might sound ridiculous hippy bullshit, but it's not, and I ain't no hippy-most of you who have strayed into one of my concerts know that. Yes there were amazing shows, yes famous artists played there, yes it's the top venue for local bands to aspire to etc. But that doesn't hold a candle to what the real value of the Lemon Tree was and what it was really achieving quietly and constantly behind the scenes, not asking for any pats on the back or accolades etc.

And that includes the drama groups with disabled people that wrote, performed, and organized their own plays. Want to talk about quality and commitment? They were top notch, and the Lemon Tree and staff were there to provide that experience to sold out audiences. Would a local bar do that? There's the seniors group that met every week with more enthusiasm than any local band I've ever seen...and not just choir and brass bands (who are there and excellent as well) but full on rock bands with 70 year olds giving it there all-who's going to step up to support these people? There's the puppet shows with world famous artists performing to hundreds of children who will always remember these events. There's the Thursday lunchtime gigs for up and coming bands. And there's the Youth Music development that I was coordinating that had some of the best tutors in Aberdeen giving lessons for free in the absolute worst areas of town to kids that really, I mean, REALLY needed it, need some hope and some opportunities.

This is what we've lost, this is the true shortsightedness of the council, this is what we should all be gasping about. I can't tell you how many times I was at one of these centers when kids had to freeze in their tracks until the community leader ran out to remove the drug needles littered across their path...Who's going to support these kids and provide them with opportunities to 'get out'? I mean, it goes on and on and on the amount of work like this that was pumping out into the community. And not a fucking word about that in the paper or on the radio...no, just 'Isn't it a shame we won't get to listen to xyz' on Wednesday nights.

So yeah, I think it sucks we lost a great venue, but I think it's a tragedy that we lost an amazing arts organization that really cared about it's community and the people it served, all the while having to labor against a mistaken identity as a commercial music venue. With the closing of the Lemon Tree I've spent most of the week telling the tutors that they won't be able to work with their kids, telling the community centers that their music programs are over, and next week I get to go and meet with all the kids across the city we've worked with and personally to try and explain why all of a sudden it's all over, and that's just my little slice. All the other arts development workers will have to do the same with their communities too.

The Lemon Tree was much more than a center or venue, it was a heart pumping support out into the community and supporting groups that really needed it, in ways that no other arts organization was doing, and none as well.

Bill

Bill,

Got trigger happy with my post before seeing yours and I'm glad you posted.. perfectly articulated.. and while I have the chance to say it (on here of all places), you as well as others (Janie notably) are to be commended for the work you have done and will continue to do. Hope to see you soon and good luck with everything.

Becky (i'll miss the toilet humour )

[Jim Stax]

Originally Posted by -becky-

The co-ordinater of the campaign is actually, and I'm sure she won't mind me saying this, (as I'm sure you won't mind me saying this ), a mid-40s self-proclaimed vigilante who has been making sure we abide by the correct processes at all times! Nae yellow buckets

Members of the public were approaching me today to say in conspirational tones, "I hear there will be a vigil on castlegate". Seeing as a protest wasn't started by core members of the campaign, I don't see how it can generate bad publicity for the cause!

Another thing to say in response to those who are cynical about the lemon tree using the money to break-even then continue to struggle: last year, the Scottish Arts Council cut is annual funding which totalled £800,000 from 2002 to 2006. The £150,000 can be seen as a direct knock-on effect of this.

With this in mind, I'm sure a few will know that new posts taken up in the last year, and new strategies put into motion, in finance, marketing and of our music and comedy programmer Isla Angus made the outlook very promising. The Complete Stone Roses were the last *ever* tribute band still left over from the Andy Shearer era (unless you count Nouvelle Vague and Hayseed Dixie, which I wouldn't). Some very exciting events on the horizon. Also, I'm sure IMP would agree that the Lemon Tree and more particularly Isla, were instrumental in helping them bring fantastic bands , particularly on the scale of the Boredoms to Aberdeen. Obviously this is in relation to people's concerns over a 'music venue', it does not touch on the success of development projects (externally funded) and mid-range theatre marketing over the last couple of the years.

I realise the above has nothing to do with the structure of how the organisation was run, and I'm sure if the venue reopened there would be a huge demand for accountability, re-organisation and artistic vision. Hall Harper, chairman of the board, said on Nov 24th that the organisation was reviewing the way it was perceived and how it operated.

There was a notable and positive difference over the period of time mentioned and it is disappointing that this happened before that could start to take effect, which clearly wouldn't happen over night. I have run through a great deal of emotion over the last few days whilst absorbing the news which may explain my random comments. They are all coming from a place of concern, I will add, and I'm now settling in the 'save it' camp. The way things seemed on here initially from the LT brigade looked to be a knee jerk reaction and some of it worried me, again from a place of concern for those involved. I have been a critic of some LT business practice in the past but this was aimed at the top and the board never those on the coal face. So as mentioned I applaud what is being done. Please don't take offence if I am not seen to be getting my hands dirty but trust I will shout and support in my own manner and in the right direction...


You know when a relationship ends and you go through a period of missing, hating, remembering, mouthing off at and then finally getting over and on with it with a special place set aside for that person. I would think there is a much of that going on... Myself included.
Good luck


And well said Prof!!!!

[Mothership]

After reading Bill's excellent and moving post I chanced upon a thread relating to a previous financial crisis. In a post detailing the situation at the time, it was stated that the Lemon Tree received £40,000 from the Common Good Fund.

Surely given the Lemon Tree's remit the Common Good fund would again be an appropriate source of funding? Surely this is more worthwhile than the Provost's car!

If the loss of grants is the source of the shortfall, and the finances are being handled properly and it's not a complete money pit, surely the council can fill that gap?

Common Good Fund Spending Objectives

Upholding the dignity of the City, i.e. the expense of civic ceremonies and of the provision of suitable hospitality on appropriate occasions and for appropriate persons.
The management, upkeep and improvement of Council property which forms part of the Common Good.
Safeguarding the corporate rights of the community and defending its interests.
Granting donations to public institutions or charities.
Any other reasonable purpose which in the reasonable judgement of the Council is for the good of the community as a whole, or in which the inhabitants at large may share (to be distinguished from the separate interests or benefit of any particular individual or group of people, however deserving or needy).

[trippingflags]

good to read these postings - particularly the prof-lofi one,

my views and comments are/were based on my own fleeting visits which were predominantly to (for want of a better word) "rock" gigs.

Your post was a timely reminder to a lot of the less glamorous work that went on. So thanks for bringing that to light.

and lastly...

a reminder of one of my very special nights at ti't tree

love..simply love

YouTube - love - the lemon tree

ps a great tribute to Arthur was had!

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by prof_lofi

And there's the Youth Music development that I was coordinating that had some of the best tutors in Aberdeen giving lessons for free in the absolute worst areas of town to kids that really, I mean, REALLY needed it, need some hope and some opportunities.

i've actually vaguely heard of this. how did it work exactly, teaching instruments in schools i think i heard? also, if they were giving lessons for free can it not be kept going independent of the lemon tree? or do you mean that the kids didn't have to pay but tutors were still paid by the lemon tree? it's a great pity to lose something like that right enough

[blackisler]

Bill - you've made me cry again! I have done way too much crying this past week.

I'm gonna pitch in on this MUSIC site and tell a little bit about the threatre side of things at the Tree - bet some of you never even know there was a theatre?

Anyway I was the theatre/dance/kids shows programmer there for the last 5 years and I am angry & upset - but not for me

I am angry for all the 700 kids who were supposed to be there on Wednesday & Thursday to see a show for their Christmas nursery/school treat. My own son's school included. It broke my heart to tell him he wouldn't be going.

I am angry for the 40 or so mentally & phiysically disabled adults who come to their drama group every Tuesday night. They were the last ever group to use the venue before the locks were changed. If you have ever seen a Va Va Voom show you will know how truly special in so many ways that strand of the Lemon Tree's work was.

I am angry for the 50+ Chior & Theatre Group who meet weekly and were supposed to have their Christmas show on Friday. The wonderful men & women of Vocal Moves & Theatre Serindipity - I salute you.

I'm angry that the only choice of kids theatre in the city will be the Singing Kettle, Cbeebies, Lazytown and the likes. Are HMT and AECC going to be interested in putting on theatre for special needs children with makaton signing and limited audience capacity of 40? And theatre for under 3's for 20 kids at a time? So many kids have had their first ever experience of theatre at the Tree - that is now lost.

What choice now will there be to see theatre in Aberdeen? Andrew Lloyd Webber et al musicals at His Majestys at £30 a ticket or amateur drama groups at The Arts Centre. How dissapointing to have the Oil Capital of Europe with nowhere to support a culturally diverse, bold, innovative and high quality programme of theatre, dance and children’s performances.

I am personally gutted at all the performances I have had to cancel that were booked for 2008 - particular highlights included Tam O'Shanter Shadow Puppet Show, Dave Benson Phillips – Get Up and Go Show (YES - the real DBP form Get Your Own Back) Mull Theatre – Katie Morag, European kids shows as part of the Bank of Scotland Children's International Theatre Festival, Stellar Quines – The Unconquered (CATS award for Best New Play) and lastly a 3 night run of Iain Banks The Wasp Factory which I was convinced may even have enticed some muso's to come and see a theatre show!

I can see that some of the music acts who appeared at the Lemon Tree can now be slotted into other venues but I can't think of any viabale alternatives where the theatre/dance/kids shows could be performed elsewhere in Aberdeen - there simply is nowhere. Well except for the new £20 million Union Terrace gardens Contemporary Arts Centre. But surely thats just a co-incidence?

[JF9TP2]

Originally Posted by blackisler

Bill - you've made me cry again! I have done way too much crying this past week.

I'm gonna pitch in on this MUSIC site and tell a little bit about the threatre side of things at the Tree - bet some of you never even know there was a theatre?

Anyway I was the theatre/dance/kids shows programmer there for the last 5 years and I am angry & upset - but not for me

I am angry for all the 700 kids who were supposed to be there on Wednesday & Thursday to see a show for their Christmas nursery/school treat. My own son's school included. It broke my heart to tell him he wouldn't be going.

I am angry for the 40 or so mentally & phiysically disabled adults who come to their drama group every Tuesday night. They were the last ever group to use the venue before the locks were changed. If you have ever seen a Va Va Voom show you will know how truly special in so many ways that strand of the Lemon Tree's work was.

I am angry for the 50+ Chior & Theatre Group who meet weekly and were supposed to have their Christmas show on Friday. The wonderful men & women of Vocal Moves & Theatre Serindipity - I salute you.

I'm angry that the only choice of kids theatre in the city will be the Singing Kettle, Cbeebies, Lazytown and the likes. Are HMT and AECC going to be interested in putting on theatre for special needs children with makaton signing and limited audience capacity of 40? And theatre for under 3's for 20 kids at a time? So many kids have had their first ever experience of theatre at the Tree - that is now lost.

What choice now will there be to see theatre in Aberdeen? Andrew Lloyd Webber et al musicals at His Majestys at £30 a ticket or amateur drama groups at The Arts Centre. How dissapointing to have the Oil Capital of Europe with nowhere to support a culturally diverse, bold, innovative and high quality programme of theatre, dance and children’s performances.

I am personally gutted at all the performances I have had to cancel that were booked for 2008 - particular highlights included Tam O'Shanter Shadow Puppet Show, Dave Benson Phillips – Get Up and Go Show (YES - the real DBP form Get Your Own Back) Mull Theatre – Katie Morag, European kids shows as part of the Bank of Scotland Children's International Theatre Festival, Stellar Quines – The Unconquered (CATS award for Best New Play) and lastly a 3 night run of Iain Banks The Wasp Factory which I was convinced may even have enticed some muso's to come and see a theatre show!

I can see that some of the music acts who appeared at the Lemon Tree can now be slotted into other venues but I can't think of any viabale alternatives where the theatre/dance/kids shows could be performed elsewhere in Aberdeen - there simply is nowhere. Well except for the new £20 million Union Terrace gardens Contemporary Arts Centre. But surely thats just a co-incidence?

It truely is a shame... i wish more could be done for theese groups, because as you and others have said... the loss of the music venue is a shame, but the loss of the facility for young theatre, disabled theatre, and 50+ choir group ect. is something that has nowhere else to go, i think that is the real loss with the lemontree, places like tunnels and moshulu will pickup the gigs im sure

[original_andy]

Hi,

We're having a discussion on the Lemon Tree on tomorrow night's Sunday Showcase on Original 106. At the moment we've got Cllr George Adam who was on the board and someone from the save the lemon tree campaign.

I'd really like to get someone from the local music scene involved in the discussion. We'll talking about why the LT shut down, how can it be saved and if it should be saved.

Please e-mail me on andrew.learmonth@originalfm.com if you're interested in coming on. It'll be in the studio or if you can't make that on the phone line. We'll be starting the discussion at 6.30pm.

Cheers

Andy

[saf-one]

Originally Posted by prof_lofi

Hi Everyone,

Been holding off posting because of how personally sensitive I feel about the loss of the Lemon Tree and all that it means to me. It's hard to read some of the comments here that seem naive at best, if not purposefully hurtful. But since I post here for all my shows, I guess it would be bad manners to not at least comment once on the situation.

First, this isn't going to be some balanced statement, not at all. I had a very personal stake in the Lemon Tree even if I saw it's flaws and handicaps. I've never worked with such amazing people. And seriously, I'm not just saying this out of some 'the ship is sinking, say something poetic' sensibility...It's sincere when I say that the staff there are some of the most genuine and committed people I've ever worked with.

But having said that, I do understand many of the comments on here, from the 'don't pump money into a leaky bucket' to the 'best venue Aberdeen's ever seen' and all the rest. At one time I've had most of those thoughts as well, and of course if you're only exposure to the Lemon Tree is as a music venue, how can you not see it in only these terms?

But much of that changed when I actually started working there. Now,---I know that's not an option that everyone can have and isn't the point, but once I was exposed to the shear volume and diversity of work that was occurring as a result of the Lemon Tree, I realized that most of my opinions were being formed from a very narrow perspective and misconception of what the Lemon Tree actually was and I had no idea of the scope and amount of work and love that the L.Tree pumped out to the community.

Yes, I said love and it might sound ridiculous hippy bullshit, but it's not, and I ain't no hippy-most of you who have strayed into one of my concerts know that. Yes there were amazing shows, yes famous artists played there, yes it's the top venue for local bands to aspire to etc. But that doesn't hold a candle to what the real value of the Lemon Tree was and what it was really achieving quietly and constantly behind the scenes, not asking for any pats on the back or accolades etc.

And that includes the drama groups with disabled people that wrote, performed, and organized their own plays. Want to talk about quality and commitment? They were top notch, and the Lemon Tree and staff were there to provide that experience to sold out audiences. Would a local bar do that? There's the seniors group that met every week with more enthusiasm than any local band I've ever seen...and not just choir and brass bands (who are there and excellent as well) but full on rock bands with 70 year olds giving it there all-who's going to step up to support these people? There's the puppet shows with world famous artists performing to hundreds of children who will always remember these events. There's the Thursday lunchtime gigs for up and coming bands. And there's the Youth Music development that I was coordinating that had some of the best tutors in Aberdeen giving lessons for free in the absolute worst areas of town to kids that really, I mean, REALLY needed it, need some hope and some opportunities.

This is what we've lost, this is the true shortsightedness of the council, this is what we should all be gasping about. I can't tell you how many times I was at one of these centers when kids had to freeze in their tracks until the community leader ran out to remove the drug needles littered across their path...Who's going to support these kids and provide them with opportunities to 'get out'? I mean, it goes on and on and on the amount of work like this that was pumping out into the community. And not a fucking word about that in the paper or on the radio...no, just 'Isn't it a shame we won't get to listen to xyz' on Wednesday nights.

So yeah, I think it sucks we lost a great venue, but I think it's a tragedy that we lost an amazing arts organization that really cared about it's community and the people it served, all the while having to labor against a mistaken identity as a commercial music venue. With the closing of the Lemon Tree I've spent most of the week telling the tutors that they won't be able to work with their kids, telling the community centers that their music programs are over, and next week I get to go and meet with all the kids across the city we've worked with and personally to try and explain why all of a sudden it's all over, and that's just my little slice. All the other arts development workers will have to do the same with their communities too.

The Lemon Tree was much more than a center or venue, it was a heart pumping support out into the community and supporting groups that really needed it, in ways that no other arts organization was doing, and none as well.

Bill

Here here!! I agree 100% and glad someone from "the inside" has made it clear to everyone the great work the Leomn Tree did.

PS Why move the thread?