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[black_matter]

Originally Posted by Johnology

The aberdeen HNC convers alot of live work, i'm not even doing it till September but there seems alot of it and i can't wait!
I'm not doing this so i can head off into the great wide open world and try make a career, i'm doing the course because i find it interesting and love to learn about it.
But i do see your original point.

There's about say.....two months of live work tops in the Aberdeen HNC.

Rest of its infrastructure, business, unions etc.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

Originally Posted by Fraser Mac

See the post above your last one.



As for the comments about SAE, are you even aware its an educational facility? if you look at the people that have come out of SAE and some of the work they have gone on to do, how can you say its not worth the fee's?

These people are making a living off of somthing they love doing, and for those that havnt gone on to work in the industry, i doubt they would spend the money on the course to then realise they actually dont enjoy sound production as much as they though.

most will be active in the music buisness in some way,

Please tell me all about the many SAE graduates and their ace jobs.

No, actually don't, as your tone is as arsey and bad as your spelling. My point is that there are many who will find that they don't make much of a living, such as the SAE graduands that I have met*, but I don't want to hijack this thread any further. Its only the internet, no need to burn with self-righteousness**, did I not accept that it is the individuals call.

*Purely anecdotal I accept
** Unless thats what you like about it, in which case fire away.

[milner]

Originally Posted by Fraser Mac

As for the comments about SAE, are you even aware its an educational facility? if you look at the people that have come out of SAE and some of the work they have gone on to do, how can you say its not worth the fee's?

Do you have any examples?
What percentage of people who do these courses end up in jobs they were going for in the first place and how many end up doing whatever they can get because there are no real jobs avaliable?

[Stupot]

It's not easy to get well paid sound engineering jobs, it never has been. The best, most tried and trusted route is doing free dogsbody work like making tea and sweeping up, then tape op, then setting mics, and eventually someone might let you near a big expensive desk. This is exactly the route I took and i now own the studio were I got my first assistant engineer job. I personally feel it's a good thing to get some decent training but most established sound engineers i know are unimpressed by bits of paper.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

Originally Posted by Stupot

It's not easy to get well paid sound engineering jobs, it never has been. The best, most tried and trusted route is doing free dogsbody work like making tea and sweeping up, then tape op, then setting mics, and eventually someone might let you near a big expensive desk. This is exactly the route I took and i now own the studio were I got my first assistant engineer job. I personally feel it's a good thing to get some decent training but most established sound engineers i know are unimpressed by bits of paper.

How is business holding up with the Recession*, and do you think that Home Recording has had a significant impact on business? I suppose in some instances it might mean that bands/musos are better prepared when they go into a pro studio in terms of organisation, arrangement and expectations, but on the other hand you might get more knowitall types. The career path you mention is almost always the one that I've read about in interviews with most Engineers/Producers that make a living from it, at all levels.

Its a sair fecht for a half loaf, as my Granny often says.

*If you don't mind me asking.

[Stupot]

Originally Posted by Pierre Von Mondragon

How is business holding up with the Recession*, and do you think that Home Recording has had a significant impact on business? I suppose in some instances it might mean that bands/musos are better prepared when they go into a pro studio in terms of organisation, arrangement and expectations, but on the other hand you might get more knowitall types. The career path you mention is almost always the one that I've read about in interviews with most Engineers/Producers that make a living from it, at all levels.

Its a sair fecht for a half loaf, as my Granny often says.

*If you don't mind me asking.

Not at all. Frankly, we're busier than ever, despite being located in a small town in Moray. The main effect of the recession has meant that i've gone on to a fixed price scheme for bands looking for a straightforward demo or ep service. ie. not requiring a producer.
We charge a £50 per day standard charge (6hours tracking time) then £10 per track mixing and mastering. This means a band knows exactly how much they'll pay for their recording. There's also little time pressure on them which makes for a better recording session.
The appearance of decent home recording units has killed the demo market, as just about anybody can knock out a half decent non commercial live recording or even a multitrack. All this work was previously done by pro studios in between big projects. Many of the lower to mid end ones have closed.
However, equipping your spare room with an operating theatre doesn't mean you can carry out brain surgery and a commercial release needs pro mixing and mastering. I often find a lot of bands will record their track in their garage and give me a multi track mix to finish and master for them. Or they'll even bring in their digital recorder with tracks all done for me to do a mix. After all, tracking isn't rocket science.
Thankfully, it's not yet possible to master a recording at home but the day will come. It's mainly the cost of mastering gear and software that's prohibitive. Waves platinum for instance is still over £1000.
I often get guys coming in with tracks recorded at other so called studios to have them improved. One local band came in with some truly appalling recording that had cost them £600 for 4 tracks recorded playing live with just a pair of mics in front of them. There was no saving it and we redone the whole thing for them.
It's a pity they parted with so much money in the first place. It's a cautionary tale and I would advise anyone to ask to hear previous recording from anyone who claims to runs a recording studio. If they're worth their salt they'll happily let you hear them. I put up a pile of recordings on my website on a media player so people can hear previous stuff from all genres.
I've never met a know it all in my studio. Most acts are nervous when first confronted by a proper desk and equipment. A vocal booth is quite an intimidating space too and when someone sings through a decent mic for the first time and hears their voice in crystal clear clarity through headphones, it can come as a shock.The guys who've done some of the courses mentioned here are always very interested in the process but none come across as bolshy or arrogant.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

Good stuff, as a home recorder (electronic division) myself, I'm always interested in the pro view, and glad to see people can still make a living from good skills(z), no knowitalls is a bonus. Its also interesting to see that people combine doing it at home, and then taking it in for a polish, no time pressure when tracking is an advantage to me, though some may thrive on the challenge.