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[awiseman]

I got custom moulds made for Elacin ER-15's for £140 a number of years ago via the hearing shop on George Steeet. They are pretty much the same as the Etymotic's. Well worth it.

When I worked offshore we were allowed to get the custom moulded ones and claim the cost back on expenses. I kept hold of them and use them at practices, score! Haven't used them live yet as they dull things down somewhat. I think I just need to get used to it.

[The Byre]

I am amazed! Wireless in-the-ear monitoring can cost as little as £150 and still there are people out there destroying their ears with screeming monitors that are driven to distortion. Then they say, ooh-err, I've damaged my hearing! Now what do I do?

We have had in-the-ear monitoring for well over ten yeras now (prob. more like 20!) so there is no excuse. You have seen EVERY major act use them. Even Ozzy was told by his insurance that he had to use them. No matter how wild and crazy the act, they ALL use in-the-ear monitoring and so should you.

Or are you telling me that your hearing is not worth £150?

In-the-ear monitoring -

1. Is CHEAPER than a stage full of wedges.

2. Does away with feedback on stage.

3. Gets rid of phase problems on stage and therefore cleans up the sound.

4. Protects your ears.

5. Lets YOU set the level with a volume control right there on your belt-pack.

Yes, bits of cheap foam is better than nothing, but only just. Get a proper set of fitted in-the-ear monitors and stop playing fast and loose with your health. I bet you don't belt fcuk out of your willy with a hammer, so why do that to your ears?

Here are a few pages from the Thomann site, so that you can compare prices and features.

Search Results - Page 1 - U.K. International Cyberstore

[soundian]

Originally Posted by The Byre

1. Is CHEAPER than a stage full of wedges.

Unfortunately the bands have to buy their own IEMs, but not the stage monitors which are provided by the venue/PA company, so it's not cheaper at all, unless of course they own the PA.

[Chris]

Isn't one of the main reasons big acts use in ear monitoring is because they spend half the gig moving around their gargantuan stage, thus never standing in front of the same monitor for long enough to set it up correctly?

Something local bands playing The Tunnels or Moorings don't have to worry about really.

How do in ear monitors work anyway, where does the feed come off? Do they just take a line off the desk that would normally go to the stage monitor and stick it in the sending box for the IEM?

[HairyScaryMark]

Originally Posted by The Byre

I am amazed! Wireless in-the-ear monitoring can cost as little as £150 and still there are people out there destroying their ears with screeming monitors that are driven to distortion. Then they say, ooh-err, I've damaged my hearing! Now what do I do?

In Ear monitoring is the future (as well as already being a reality) for professional touring musicians.

It isn't practical for local venues to buy in ear monitoring systems and having everyone who plays there sharing ear wax. I realise that you get replacement foam? things that go on the end of the earphones but there is a cost involved in that also. Some people have particualrly dirty ears and even with replacing the ends, extensive cleaning would be required and lets face it, people would forget to clean (or just wouldn't clean) them.

It also is quite inflexible if you have a band that has say 8 people? They would really have to use wedges unless the venue has 8 in ear monitor systems (which they most likely would not).

I would personally never use in ear monitors without some form of limiter (incase of feedback) and a competant sound engineer (which are less widespread than you might expect). When in ear monitoring goes very wrong, your hearing could be gone for good, just like that. Not so likely (although still possible) with wedge monitors.

Also, I notice when you introduce something like headphone monitoring, people instantly expect a lot more and become far more picky about their monitor mixes. Also expect large quantities or reverb in their ears also.

Originally Posted by Chris

Isn't one of the main reasons big acts use in ear monitoring is because they spend half the gig moving around their gargantuan stage, thus never standing in front of the same monitor for long enough to set it up correctly?

Not really, that is only one reason. The best overall reason is the improved sound quality at reduced volume levels.

Originally Posted by Chris

How do in ear monitors work anyway, where does the feed come off? Do they just take a line off the desk that would normally go to the stage monitor and stick it in the sending box for the IEM?

There is a number of ways of doing this. Some in ear monitoring systems are used in conjunction with 8 channel mixers so you make adjustments to your monitor mixes, by yourself. Some come with 2 inputs and a control to mix the levels between them. The idea being one comes from the main monitor mix (without your instrument) and one is just your instrument. Otherwise you just use the conventional aux send form the mixing desk.

[soundian]

Originally Posted by HairyScaryMark

In Ear monitoring is the future (as well as already being a reality) for professional touring musicians.

Most professional touring musicians don't use IEMs, it's far from a reality, in fact, I haven't seen much more in the past two years than I did between 94-96.

Originally Posted by HairyScaryMark

It isn't practical for local venues to buy in ear monitoring systems and having everyone who plays there sharing ear wax. I realise that you get replacement foam? things that go on the end of the earphones but there is a cost involved in that also. Some people have particualrly dirty ears and even with replacing the ends, extensive cleaning would be required and lets face it, people would forget to clean (or just wouldn't clean) them.

In practice , IEMs are only really valuable if the artist has their own moulded plugs, otherwise there's normally too much bleed so the volume has to be turned up and your back where you started . Sharing earphones is too icky to contemplate so everyone would have to have their own .

Originally Posted by HairyScaryMark

It also is quite inflexible if you have a band that has say 8 people? They would really have to use wedges unless the venue has 8 in ear monitor systems (which they most likely would not).

That's another problem, if everyone has IEM's, you need more monitors because people can't share, like brass sections for example, you can normally do a 3 piece with 1 aux and 1 pair of wedges, with IEMs you'd need 3 separate auxes and units.(unless of course you match up frequencies on the receivers)

Originally Posted by HairyScaryMark

I would personally never use in ear monitors without some form of limiter (incase of feedback) and a competant sound engineer (which are less widespread than you might expect). When in ear monitoring goes very wrong, your hearing could be gone for good, just like that. Not so likely (although still possible) with wedge monitors.

Another problem, which is probably why I hardly ever see IEMs without an engineer attached. All decent IEMs will have a limiter.

Originally Posted by HairyScaryMark

Also, I notice when you introduce something like headphone monitoring, people instantly expect a lot more and become far more picky about their monitor mixes. Also expect large quantities or reverb in their ears also.

Another disadvantage, monitor mixes take longer to set up.

Usual way to set up an IEM is to use an aux, most venues are spec'ing desks with more auxes than they need ( for their FX and stage monitors) nowadays, IF they have a significant amount of IEM owning artists playing there.

[Flash@TMB]

The main cause of hearing damage is poor quality sound not excessive volume.

Here's a question for anyone who has (during the past 3 years) either played on The Moorings Stage, or been present at one of our gigs:

Have you ever left with sore, dulled or ringing ears?

I have been there listening to loud music 3x every week and have never experienced any problems with my hearing. Yet we are regularily pushing out sound at 120dB and perhaps louder.

The biggest complaint we get is that "it's not loud enough", meaning "my ears are not hurting yet". People are used to going to or playing at gigs then being left with ringing ears for hours later, they associate this feeling with high volume, when in actual fact it's caused by poor quality sound. Here's are links that explain this way better than I can:

Pro Audio Asia - Nov 2002
ProSoundWeb | Distortion Truths pg. 1

It is important to protect the ears of your performers and customers. We devoted a lot of time and attention into both our room and stage, in addition to installing extremely good PA. If everywhere bothered to do this, then perhaps there wouldn't be Eurocrats threatening to impose dB limits etc.

Originally Posted by Flash@TMB

The main cause of hearing damage is poor quality sound not excessive volume.

i'm not trying to be picky here but...

Total bullshit

hearing damage is directly associated with excessively loud music.

i think i know what you mean though, bad sound/distortion is more harmful BECAUSE it produces more overtones and therefore a wider spectrum in the mid-high range where the ear is more responsive to sound. The wider the spectrum, the more the energy, therefore more damage. Good sound may also be eq'd better to reduce the overall high db's at harmful frequencies.

But the statement quoted is pretty much bullshit, the primary if not SOLE reason for hearing damage is a high db spl endured for a period of time, although "bad sound" may add to the high decibels and broad spectrum.


sorry if seem to come across too harshly.

If I understand Flash (and the articles) correctly, he is saying that for a given SPL, a sound reinforcement source with high amounts of distortion (through speaker overdrive, poor gain structure and other artefacts) will contribute relatively more high frequency harmonics which can be damaging to hearing.

I guess another factor is the type of music. I imagine a metal band will cause more hearing damage than a dub reggae band at the same volume. But you're right, the MAIN cause of hearing loss is exposure to high SPLs, intentional or not.