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[HateEvent]

Yeah that's cool with me.

I thought up a new part for under the start of the Point Being solo... we'll see if ya think it works or not

[Hogisbald]

Check yer MSN Jimmer

[ghost]

Hey Hog, how's it going?
Sounds like you've got plenty tips to keep you going... but...

If you know the tempo and time sequence change the Audition view from mm:ss to beats and bars (View menu-> Display Time Format -> Beats & Bars). Might make it easier to pinpoint the splits and if you have snap (snap to frames) switched on it makes cutting the file a piece of piss.
Sounds blimmin weird that Capt. Toms does it that way, but each to their own eh?
Glad Audition is getting used!

I did this with a captain toms recording. If you look closely on a wave editor, you will see tiny momentary blips marking the divison between tracks. These are barely audible square waves that sound like a small pop. If you zoom right in, you can cut each track to the nearest sample and get the start points exact.

[IamScrooge]

Why on earth do they give you the tracks in this format???
Silly, silly, SILLY recording studio!

[Keilan 303]

It should be easy enough, you just need a set of headphones, a better sequencer (like Cubase! Editing in Audition is plain crap) and a bit of patience.

Find the end of each track, and make cuts, then drag each cut part into its own track, and lock them all to start at 0 seconds, don't worry about it being in sync yet.

Solo each track and identify what they all are. Label this on your mixer and "bounce" the audio down so you get a new WAV file with just the one track, and named in correspondance with whatever you labelled your channel with (ie. kick, snare, rack, floor, OH 1, OH 2) Right click > audio > bounce selecton .. in cubase sx

Solo OH1 and OH 2 (the mics which were over the whole kit, there will be no apparent peaks in the WAV file for this unlike the toms which will peak when the toms are hit, but may be picking everything up at other times, albeit very rumbly, and in tune with the particular drum)

Trim your OH channels right up to the first click. Zoom right down to single sample accuracy and make your cut just before the wav peak rises, with the wavform at unison (zero, centre line). As these channels recorded essentially the same thing, trimming these up to the clicks should be enough to get these 2 tracks in sync. Lock the start back to 0 seconds and give it a listen, pan one hard left and one hard right, give it a listen in headphones and make sure the stereo image sounds right. IE. if you drummer is right handed and the snare sounds more to the left, then the OH's will be panned round the wrong way, so pan accordingly, the track you had to pan left rename as OH Left, and vice versa.

Everything can be done off the overheads. Probably easiest to start with the snare. Trim right up to the first hit of the snare, keep the channel muted, give the overheads a listen and listen out for the first snare hit. Stop, move your cursor line to the beginning of the snare in the overheads, there may be a slight rise in the wav form, but this mostly has to be done with ears. Get that position, switch your snapping to "Magnetic cursor" and lock the snare to the cursor, unmute the snare and give it a listen. If it seems off. Zoom in very close and make minute adjustments, 100 samples at a time or less (there are 44100 samples per second, so this is mega accuracy) Keep listening, keep your snare channel low so you can distinguish being played the same time as the snare in the overhead. Of course this isn't 100% correct because obviously theres the speed of sound to consider etc....so once you've got it dead on with the OH, you could always shift it back a few samples, nothing major, but the space between the snare and the OH's isn't exactly going to create much delay (I wouldn't think, what do I know)

Repeat the same for the Kick drum, should be easy enough again, then the toms. The toms will no doubt be rumbling like hell, I'd trim out any rumbling where the toms aren't being hit. Rely on reverb and/or the overheads for ambience.

As for the bass, if the bass player was playing along with the drummer, the drum mics will have no doubt picked him up, so just play around, cutting up to where he starts and where you hear the bass sounding in the ovehead mics. If the bass was loud, this might ruin the kick mic recording, the recordings I've heard have so much spill in the kick mic that by the time you've EQ'd it out, you're left with a really tinny crappy sound, if you leave it in it might add too much rumbling, and if you gate the kick, it'll sound worse having a rumbling bass coming on every time the kick is struck. It's metal music, so the kick should probably be triggered anyway

Before I had a multiple input sound card I had to convert all my stuff from my 8 track 2 tracks at a time, so I've had a bit of practice, but its pretty easy to pick up, its just muting all the other tracks and just finding whats best to work with.

If I ever go to capt toms again I am taking my ADAT, fuck having in one track!!

Lets hear it for standards...

[Hogisbald]

Thanks for the advice. It sounds easy but I really struggling. Keilan, you have been good to me regarding advice but (cheeky question where Im chancing my luck) could I like pay you to do this because its all a bit above my limited knowledge (I hit my laptop last night) lol.

Have tried the suggestions but Im getting in knots.

BTW Im always harrassing our drummer to get triggers but hes not up for it. I heard that mixing a triggered kick and some acoustic kick is the best way. Also using a tent! haha. Also a nice rug for the bass drums.

[Keilan 303]

Check your PM's dude I don't mind doing that (its my idea of fun!! )

Heh, do you know if those SYL studio vids are still online? Was a really cool look into recording. The rug will be thrown over a table to create a sort of tube which will effectively extend the length of the kick drum (some folks tape two kick drums together) will be a massive sound!! I'd imagine they have at least 3 mics on the kick alone, a D112 proably inside, U47FET way back from the "tube" and probably an NS10 speaker acting as a sub-bass mic...I've even heard of the other beater side of the skin being mic'd with a 57 aswell. Would need to reoil your pedal between takes if you do that

Originally Posted by Keilan 303

It should be easy enough, you just need a set of headphones, a better sequencer (like Cubase! Editing in Audition is plain crap) and a bit of patience.

Find the end of each track, and make cuts, then drag each cut part into its own track, and lock them all to start at 0 seconds, don't worry about it being in sync yet.

Solo each track and identify what they all are. Label this on your mixer and "bounce" the audio down so you get a new WAV file with just the one track, and named in correspondance with whatever you labelled your channel with (ie. kick, snare, rack, floor, OH 1, OH 2) Right click > audio > bounce selecton .. in cubase sx

Solo OH1 and OH 2 (the mics which were over the whole kit, there will be no apparent peaks in the WAV file for this unlike the toms which will peak when the toms are hit, but may be picking everything up at other times, albeit very rumbly, and in tune with the particular drum)

Trim your OH channels right up to the first click. Zoom right down to single sample accuracy and make your cut just before the wav peak rises, with the wavform at unison (zero, centre line). As these channels recorded essentially the same thing, trimming these up to the clicks should be enough to get these 2 tracks in sync. Lock the start back to 0 seconds and give it a listen, pan one hard left and one hard right, give it a listen in headphones and make sure the stereo image sounds right. IE. if you drummer is right handed and the snare sounds more to the left, then the OH's will be panned round the wrong way, so pan accordingly, the track you had to pan left rename as OH Left, and vice versa.

Everything can be done off the overheads. Probably easiest to start with the snare. Trim right up to the first hit of the snare, keep the channel muted, give the overheads a listen and listen out for the first snare hit. Stop, move your cursor line to the beginning of the snare in the overheads, there may be a slight rise in the wav form, but this mostly has to be done with ears. Get that position, switch your snapping to "Magnetic cursor" and lock the snare to the cursor, unmute the snare and give it a listen. If it seems off. Zoom in very close and make minute adjustments, 100 samples at a time or less (there are 44100 samples per second, so this is mega accuracy) Keep listening, keep your snare channel low so you can distinguish being played the same time as the snare in the overhead. Of course this isn't 100% correct because obviously theres the speed of sound to consider etc....so once you've got it dead on with the OH, you could always shift it back a few samples, nothing major, but the space between the snare and the OH's isn't exactly going to create much delay (I wouldn't think, what do I know)

Repeat the same for the Kick drum, should be easy enough again, then the toms. The toms will no doubt be rumbling like hell, I'd trim out any rumbling where the toms aren't being hit. Rely on reverb and/or the overheads for ambience.

As for the bass, if the bass player was playing along with the drummer, the drum mics will have no doubt picked him up, so just play around, cutting up to where he starts and where you hear the bass sounding in the ovehead mics. If the bass was loud, this might ruin the kick mic recording, the recordings I've heard have so much spill in the kick mic that by the time you've EQ'd it out, you're left with a really tinny crappy sound, if you leave it in it might add too much rumbling, and if you gate the kick, it'll sound worse having a rumbling bass coming on every time the kick is struck. It's metal music, so the kick should probably be triggered anyway

Before I had a multiple input sound card I had to convert all my stuff from my 8 track 2 tracks at a time, so I've had a bit of practice, but its pretty easy to pick up, its just muting all the other tracks and just finding whats best to work with.

If I ever go to capt toms again I am taking my ADAT, fuck having in one track!!

Lets hear it for standards...

you don't need to line up the drums using the recorded sound. This will lead to phase problems. A single sound will not hit all the mics at exactly the same instant. There is already a point there to mark the exact beginning of each track. Its in the middle of the silence between the tracks. Read my post!

[Keilan 303]

Originally Posted by Ikaruga

you don't need to line up the drums using the recorded sound. This will lead to phase problems. A single sound will not hit all the mics at exactly the same instant. There is already a point there to mark the exact beginning of each track. Its in the middle of the silence between the tracks. Read my post!

Aye posted before I saw your post!! If there is some sort of audible click at the start of each track that must mean they existed as seperate wave files at some point and were collated for reasons unknown to man nor beast!!!

As for the phase problems, you always have your phase reverse switch, although I've always found you get a tighter sound syncing your kick and snare with the overheads anyway..it's all shaping your sound, and can be used to effect.