Record Stores face extinction

[Stripey]

Originally Posted by Alkaline

Wrong.

So was i if you read my statement properly. Are you ignoring the bodies perception of non-audible sounds then entirely?


You're right and wrong. I have read all about Nyquist-Shannon Sampling Theorum, and clipping occurs more regularly on poorly encoded and lower bitrate media than it does on higher bitrate media like CD, for example.

sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about, as chris has pointed out the speed of your computer has no bearing atall on the quality of the encode output, just the length of time it takes to complete.

A/D Converters don't come into it, because when you rip a CD in a computer and encode it to mp3 it's all happening in the digital domain, and if you rip at the slowest possible speed from a well manufactured CD, you're very very unlikely to encounter any errors.

You're totally wrong about clipping, this is something which is controlled by the studio when they produce the master recordings. If you're CD doesn't clip, when you encode it to MP3 it's not going to clip either. You're confusing clipping with dithering and aliasing, which is dependant on samplerates, and that is why you notice washy highs and what *sounds like* distortion as you decrease the bitrate/samplerate of an mp3. It's not clipping.

For the purposes of this discussion, most people who buy and listen to music do not have outrageously expensive hifi setups with professional quality A/D converters, in acoustically treated rooms. That's a niche market, which is full of a lot of chinstroking nonsense perpetuated by people who claim to be able to hear a gnat fart at 200 yards.
320kbps is more than adequate for most normal purposes, and you're certainly not going to be able to tell the difference between that and a CD when you're listening on an ipod.

[Inkster]

Originally Posted by Stripey

sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about, as chris has pointed out the speed of your computer has no bearing atall on the quality of the encode output, just the length of time it takes to complete.

A/D Converters don't come into it, because when you rip a CD in a computer and encode it to mp3 it's all happening in the digital domain, and if you rip at the slowest possible speed from a well manufactured CD, you're very very unlikely to encounter any errors.

You're totally wrong about clipping, this is something which is controlled by the studio when they produce the master recordings. If you're CD doesn't clip, when you encode it to MP3 it's not going to clip either. You're confusing clipping with dithering and aliasing, which is dependant on samplerates, and that is why you notice washy highs and what *sounds like* distortion as you decrease the bitrate/samplerate of an mp3. It's not clipping.

For the purposes of this discussion, most people who buy and listen to music do not have outrageously expensive hifi setups with professional quality A/D converters, in acoustically treated rooms. That's a niche market, which is full of a lot of chinstroking nonsense perpetuated by people who claim to be able to hear a gnat fart at 200 yards.
320kbps is more than adequate for most normal purposes, and you're certainly not going to be able to tell the difference between that and a CD when you're listening on an ipod.

Did you not read the bit further up that says to stop talking about this now?!

[Giles Walker]

Originally Posted by Inkster

Did you not read the bit further up that says to stop talking about this now?!

Sorry guys but this is the way the internet works and i am actually enjoying this lively debate.

Still not buying the idea that you can tell the difference between a 320 mp3 and a cd.

I wanna see graphs and stuff.

[Old Gold]

Plenty room on the internet for everybody and all that.

I think the people complaining that they get looked down on and receive no 'good choice' comments in record shops are pretty funny. Validate me!

[Alkaline]

Originally Posted by Stripey

sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about, as chris has pointed out the speed of your computer has no bearing atall on the quality of the encode output, just the length of time it takes to complete.

A/D Converters don't come into it, because when you rip a CD in a computer and encode it to mp3 it's all happening in the digital domain, and if you rip at the slowest possible speed from a well manufactured CD, you're very very unlikely to encounter any errors.

You're totally wrong about clipping, this is something which is controlled by the studio when they produce the master recordings. If you're CD doesn't clip, when you encode it to MP3 it's not going to clip either. You're confusing clipping with dithering and aliasing, which is dependant on samplerates, and that is why you notice washy highs and what *sounds like* distortion as you decrease the bitrate/samplerate of an mp3. It's not clipping.

For the purposes of this discussion, most people who buy and listen to music do not have outrageously expensive hifi setups with professional quality A/D converters, in acoustically treated rooms. That's a niche market, which is full of a lot of chinstroking nonsense perpetuated by people who claim to be able to hear a gnat fart at 200 yards.
320kbps is more than adequate for most normal purposes, and you're certainly not going to be able to tell the difference between that and a CD when you're listening on an ipod.

I discussed that with Chris and you'll see that we covered it.

Yes, very unlikely but still possible nonetheless and also not everyone treats CDs with Kid Gloves and we all know what a good fingerprint/scratch can do to a CD when you're ripping it onto a computer or on playback.

Yes, i was getting the two confused but both yield similar results and bad anti-aliasing will yield distortion as clipping will in a recording.

I don't agree with your last statement, but you're entitled to your opinion as am i.

[JeanieStar]

Originally Posted by Old Gold

Plenty room on the internet for everybody and all that.

I think the people complaining that they get looked down on and receive no 'good choice' comments in record shops are pretty funny. Validate me!

I await the next installment of this thread.

[Chris]

I haven't bought an album from a record shop for ages. Despite working in the centre of town, mainly because sites like Play are usually slightly cheaper and more convenient. So they're fighting a battle on a few fronts. People not buying CDs at all and those that are just buying them online because they're more competitive. Can't see the local shop competing with either of those in the long term.

[Giles Walker]

One thing i was thinking about last night was local record shops (isn't store an americanism?) could start online shops that sold local bands mp3s next to gig tickets and the usual stuff.

If one band were selling lots of mp3s then it would make sense to press them onto 7" singles or cds so that they could be owned in the physical realm. Kinda like a more futuristic version of Rough Trade in the 70s.

Admittedly it would take a bit of effort but it would mean local shops would be part of the local scene, which would no doubt then attract online interest from elsewhere.

I'd love to be able to find local shops in weird places and check out their band scenes online.

This is obviously not an entirely serious proposal but it kinda makes sense.

Right everybody please start shooting me down now.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Giles Walker

One thing i was thinking about last night was local record shops (isn't store an americanism?) could start online shops that sold local bands mp3s next to gig tickets and the usual stuff.

If one band were selling lots of mp3s then it would make sense to press them onto 7" singles or cds so that they could be owned in the physical realm. Kinda like a more futuristic version of Rough Trade in the 70s.

Admittedly it would take a bit of effort but it would mean local shops would be part of the local scene, which would no doubt then attract online interest from elsewhere.

I'd love to be able to find local shops in weird places and check out their band scenes online.

This is obviously not an entirely serious proposal but it kinda makes sense.

Right everybody please start shooting me down now.

This post has reminded me that One Up STILL doesn't have a web presence. Shoddy.

[Stripey]

Originally Posted by Alkaline

I discussed that with Chris and you'll see that we covered it.

Yes, very unlikely but still possible nonetheless and also not everyone treats CDs with Kid Gloves and we all know what a good fingerprint/scratch can do to a CD when you're ripping it onto a computer or on playback.

Yes, i was getting the two confused but both yield similar results and bad anti-aliasing will yield distortion as clipping will in a recording.

I don't agree with your last statement, but you're entitled to your opinion as am i.

If your CD has a scratch that's got nothing to do with mp3 encoding.

Of course if you encode with a lossy format at a low bitrate eventually you're going to reach a point where so much information is discarded that the processing becomes audible, everyone knows that so what's you're point? P.S nobody who knows what they are talking about could possibly confuse concepts like dither and aliasing with clipping....