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[HairyScaryMark]

Originally Posted by Alex

If that's an exclusive list, you could do with reading up a bit about how electronic synthesis works. Or pay me £500 for a sensor to midi interface?

I am not an expert on music technology but I do own a number of digital keyboards and software synths which i play regularly as my 2nd instrument. I am a music student and I hope to be able to play piano and keyboards at a professional standard someday. Possibly even study it full-time at some point

A Kurzweill K2600, Korg Triton Extreme and Roland RD700 are also on my wish list. I probably will only get one in the relatively near future due to the fact they are expensive and I have no money.

Originally Posted by Alex

I think a lot of concern over digital things is that you're using preset recreatable capabilities of the instrument. The point at which my head gives up with the maths calculating partials in FM synthesis is the same point as it gives up describing the guitar as a method of solving complex differential equations though. They're just totally different methods of control. I find there's as much unpredictable creativity on electronic gear as there is guitar.

To an extent sound posibilities of an instrument can be expanded by the equipment available to the performer. This is the case with any instrument and not just digital ones.
Equipment should never be looked upon as a limiting factor ... what is more musical than the voice?

I will make sound pre-sets for my guitar as well as for my keyboards when I can't find what i want from an existing pre-set. I use digital technology for my guitar tone as well as keyboards.

Originally Posted by Alex

I think there are loads of traditional (sic!) musicians who feel that unless something's being recreated from new every time it's played, it loses live authenticity. Traditional musicians are limited by their reliance on what they've already written coupled with inertia both personal and external in affecting changes. Electronic musicians still have these, but a far more dialectic method of interacting with their creations live with the affordance of electronic kit . If electronic music is being discussed as a recreatable form, shouldn't the focus be on where the choices begin to be made?

The last paragraph is far from reality. Most musicians improvise. Some merely at the level of creating an interpretation. Some will change the structure, notes and even key of the music, on the spot, live. I have also seen 2 jazz guitar players play for hours at a very high standard, having never met each other before. That is originality at the maximum, well that's not really true. The most original would be if everything was written as it was played but as far as pre-written music goes that has to be pretty close. The ability for a DJ or electronic music 'performer' to change the music live is not as great as someone playing a conventional instrument. A DJ is to some extent confined within what they have entered into their pre-determined loops. I still believe a large part of the joy of live performance is the performers ability to play something a bit differnet from what you have previously heard on recordings or even their last gig.

As for guitars being pickup and play instruments?
Have you ever used fruity loops? You can create rave tunes without having a clue what you are doing. I am not for one minute suggesting that professional DJ's use the basic pre-wrriten stuff in fruity loops.
Also, when I had a loan of a friend's Korg Triton Extreme (pro workstation keyboard), there is many pre-built in riffs, and auto acompanyment. Including one even entitled 'auto rave'. You hit one key and it goes off and plays a rave song for you. You just add whatever you want over the top. Of course most people who take electronic music seriously will write most of their music from scratch.

[Stripey]

Originally Posted by HairyScaryMark

Have you ever used fruity loops? You can create rave tunes without having a clue what you are doing. I am not for one minute suggesting that professional DJ's use the basic pre-wrriten stuff in fruity loops.

Total rubbish. I think what should be obvious by now in this thread, is that the people posting illinformed rubbish like this about digital production don't actually have a fucking clue what they are talking about. I suppose it isn't really surprising that a bunch of people with their heads stuck in the past 40 or 50 years in terms of how they think about music don't know how modern production techniques work.

Originally Posted by HairyScaryMark

Of course most people who take electronic music seriously will write most of their music from scratch.

YES.

[milner]

Originally Posted by Frosty Jack

We will clearly never agree on this point, therefore you are banned.

try it......bitch.

Originally Posted by HairyScaryMark

Of course most people who take electronic music seriously will write most of their music from scratch.

Thats true, but not everyone thinks that, some peeps think it's just triggering presets..

[Alex]

Originally Posted by HairyScaryMark

To an extent sound posibilities of an instrument can be expanded by the equipment available to the performer. This is the case with any instrument and not just digital ones.
Equipment should never be looked upon as a limiting factor ... what is more musical than the voice?

Even if you don't want to look on equipment as a limiting factor, IT IS! Can you make your voice sound like a cello? Stretch 5 octaves? Sound like Britney (please?)? All I'm trying to say is that it's pushing these limitations and trancending the capabilities of the instrument that are creative. Machines are absolutely the same. The descisions you take on the instrument are defined by the possibilities of that instrument

Originally Posted by HairyScaryMark

The last paragraph is far from reality. Most musicians improvise. Some merely at the level of creating an interpretation. Some will change the structure, notes and even key of the music, on the spot, live.

You didn't actually refute any of my arguments and I think you may be mostly agreeing with me there. I was saying the emphasis should be on where the choices are made. Better improviser -> more choices to be made = more (possible) creativity, which is about taking descisions, preordained or not. You seem to think a good level of improvising frees you from entropy and reliance on what you've written. Balls! You're not likely to rip a blistering solo in a key you've never heard, and not likely to improvise outside of the sphere in which you can create music. There are exceptions, but they're bastards.

[daveofficer]

Originally Posted by milner

nonsense.

see this is the problem with this thread. how can it be nonsense? it's just his opinion. just cause you find the sight of an old man gurning his way through a dull and excruciating version of red house an emotional experience doesn't mean others do.

the most emotional experience i've had to music recently was hearing two of my best friends doing a lovely version of bonnie prince billy's i see a darkness at a friends wedding reception. the groom was obviously moved by it and it was sung with more emotion than gary moore could ever dream to gurn through. however i wouldn't expect others to be as moved by it as it's a song close to me and my group of friends yet not for everyone.

[Jim Stax]

What's this thread about?

[GraemeC]

It is a case of each to their own and that doesnt float my boat.....in fact it doesnt even get the oars wet, I have messed about with various sampling/sequensing/midi keyboards and I've got to say that most people with a little technical and musical knowlege could produce something similar to that in a few hours, I felt it had no heart, no highlights, and zero wow! factor.
Nothing can match the interaction between musicians producing something organic....in my humble opinion.

... hi there! Is this the real punk rock thread? Oops, my mistake, just passing through...

Originally Posted by Twobackjoe

What's this thread about?

It was great seeing you this morning...