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[GraemeC]

Originally Posted by Neubeatz

Did it all from '90-96 Alan, to me that stuffs "old skool" now,

I tend to agree with GraemeC on the topic, erm 2 types of music, good and bad... the individual has the right to discern.

Try not to misquote me.....

There is no such thing as bad music.....! its just music you dont like...

[daveofficer]

Originally Posted by Stripey

I doubt it. It's pretty impossible to tell which equipment/software is being used in the first place, unless you are really attuned to certain subtleties some pieces of equipment have or a factory patch is being used. Even then, to work out the signal chain and all the processing between the sound source and the final sound would be very difficult.
I mean, it's no more likely than it is to recreate a van gogh painting using the same equipment he used. You would still have to be equally as skilled to get the same results.
It seems a bit odd to suggest that what are essentially mistakes made during playing like hitting a duff note or whatever, constitute creativity, when really they unintentional accidents.

i guess the little imperfections add character to the music.

i actually agree with a lot of what you're saying though, computers/samplers/etc are just another form of musical instrument with their own imperfections and character just the same as guitars, bass and drums. i guess most people assume making music on a computer is just dropping things into preset music blocks so it takes the character out of it, which isn't true. though i'm sure hines knows this isn't the case. you can be just as creative on a computer as a guitar, perhaps more so as you can adjust more of the sound with less equipment.

i prefer using a guitar but that's just cause i know how to get the sound i want with it faster. i don't mind dabbling with computers but i find myself a little lost when faced with all the options.

[Stripey]

Originally Posted by daveofficer

i guess the little imperfections add character to the music.

i actually agree with a lot of what you're saying though, computers/samplers/etc are just another form of musical instrument with their own imperfections and character just the same as guitars, bass and drums. i guess most people assume making music on a computer is just dropping things into preset music blocks so it takes the character out of it, which isn't true. though i'm sure hines knows this isn't the case. you can be just as creative on a computer as a guitar, perhaps more so as you can adjust more of the sound with less equipment.

i prefer using a guitar but that's just cause i know how to get the sound i want with it faster. i don't mind dabbling with computers but i find myself a little lost when faced with all the options.

Yeah that's what I was getting at really, you have a lot of control because you're essentially playing the role of musician, sound engineer, synth programmer and producer all in one, so you have complete control over all these aspects, which gives you a lot more scope for experimentation.

[bryn]

Originally Posted by GraemeC

So what instrument do you need to play to be original/creative and why cant you be creative/original on the guitar...

I made it clear I wasn't criticising the instrument. 99% of the time, the young are too impressionable and can't see beyond their idols to be original whilst the old are simply incapable.

The recruitment pool for guitar playing is so wide that the reduction in quality is inevitable. Its accesible, easy and corresponds with pop culture. Computer music, on the other hand, must be dug out, and I think this represents a significant distinction already from the mind of the thirteen year old Nirvana fan (or middle-aged obsessive).

Most people are content with skimming the surface of music, a point illustrated by Greame C, chapter 9, Pg142:

...just as long as it triggers the entertainment synapses .....and I believe by far the majority are in the same boat.

[PVH]

Originally Posted by Stripey

Most things you have said

I do agree with most of the stuff you have said.

The point i put across was badly written and im not sure how to explain what i mean....

But i can honestly say that i would rather see someone pushing the boundries with an instrument before it has to be processed to create something original, ala Noxagt with bass guitars sounding like chainsaws and viola's that sound so distorted and peircing that they are virtually unrecognisable....without the help of any software.

[bryn]

Originally Posted by milner

i think what he means is no one can recreated the exact sound of someone playing a duff note on guitar or slighty missing hitting a drum, during a recording, things which people like to hear, however it is alot easier to recreate something made using computers as the samples and the ways to do it are already in front of you, you just have to find the right buttons.

This concept has become really unappealing to me upon acquiring a decent soundsystem, whereby I now cherish perfection. Its really quite enlightening, for example, the other day I was listening to Madonna of all people, and I became aware of notes and sounds (in particular a long sustained bass note in one section) that are simply not picked up when listening through standard speakers. People don't actually know what their favourite songs are 'supposed' to sound like.

Originally Posted by project:venhell

I do agree with most of the stuff you have said.

The point i put across was badly written and im not sure how to explain what i mean....

But i can honestly say that i would rather see someone pushing the boundries with an instrument before it has to be processed to create something original, ala Noxagt with bass guitars sounding like chainsaws and viola's that sound so distorted and peircing that they are virtually unrecognisable....without the help of any software.

Distorting said instruments is hardly boundary pushing!

[PVH]

Originally Posted by MKII

Distorting said instruments is hardly boundary pushing!

Yeah, but it doesnt sound merely like a voila or a bass with distortion, they sound super messed up.....although i know what you mean....

Edit: I put cunt at the end, but this may be misread!

Originally Posted by GraemeC

Try not to misquote me.....

Ok then....

Originally Posted by project:venhell

Yeah, but it doesnt sound merely like a voila or a bass with distortion, they sound super messed up.....although i know what you mean....cunt!

...juice.

Also, the fact they are putting it through a 'hardware' unit of some kind isn't really any different to putting it through 'software' either.

EDIT: But I dont think that's what you were getting at, you mean 'software' as in no instrument other than perhaps a keybaord?