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[Flash@TMB]

The problem here is not one of ineffective promotion. At most only one or two people reply to a thread saying "Oh shit I didn't realise that was on", not the hundreds that would indicate a promotional failure.

The real problem is over provision: a glut of gigs, too much spare capacity, and too many places competing over a very small market. Time and market forces will eventually solve this problem whether we like it or not.

That last sentence has double meaning. There's the obvious negative implication that most people will have picked up on. But IMHO this market is clearly expanding with time, as more and more young people become deeply interested in music. Something that appears set to continue in the longer term. It's just unfortunate that, in terms of supply and demand, we are still ahead the curve.

So I'm not saying don't bother with the fly posting etc... just don't expect it to work!

[soundian]

Originally Posted by Flash@TMB

The problem here is not one of ineffective promotion. At most only one or two people reply to a thread saying "Oh shit I didn't realise that was on", not the hundreds that would indicate a promotional failure.

The real problem is over provision: a glut of gigs, too much spare capacity, and too many places competing over a very small market. Time and market forces will eventually solve this problem whether we like it or not.

That last sentence has double meaning. There's the obvious negative implication that most people will have picked up on. But IMHO this market is clearly expanding with time, as more and more young people become deeply interested in music. Something that appears set to continue in the longer term. It's just unfortunate that, in terms of supply and demand, we are still ahead the curve.

So I'm not saying don't bother with the fly posting etc... just don't expect it to work!

How many people think "Oh shit I didn't realise that was on" but don't bother typing it?

It's difficult to judge how much an impact flyposting would have, since all posters at the moment are mostly confined to the venues that put on the shows, i.e. the market which already exists.

[ben_1903]

Fly postibg does work though...

People are in one up, or kilau, or r n b, or whatever venue/club/kebab shop and see a flayer/poster for a gig and say "ooh i'll go to that"

[Flash@TMB]

The population of Greater Glasgow is approx. 1.1 million...

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow)

The population of Greater Edinburgh is approx 500 thousand...

To reach the centre of Glasgow from the centre of Edinburgh takes what 30min by train. Less than the time it takes to get from Peterculter to Aberdeen. So most people in Edinburgh can reach the centre of Glasgow in an hour...

The population of the Aberdeen area is 200 thousand. That's < 1/5th the population of Greater Glasgow, and about 1/8th the population of Glasgow/Edinburgh combined...

Yes - Glasgow and Edinburgh do have more venues and more gigs than Aberdeen does. But take the total capacity of each club, and multiply it by the number of gigs, then sum the totals, and I'd suspect that Aberdeen would appear over provisioned. Then take into account that we don't generally get bands with the same level of draw up here...

Persuading a band wil a decent draw to play in Glasgow is going to relatively easy. And if you put said band on in a 300 capacity venue, with a population of between 600,000 and 1,600,000 to draw on (depending on how you carve it), then it's not going to be terribly hard get 200-300 people through the door...

But try taking a less well known band up to Aberdeen and put them on in a venue with twice the capacity and 1/5th of the populus to draw on...

Then consider for a moment that King Tuts (for example) has roughly the same capacity as The Tunnels / Cafe Drummond(s)...

Now for the biggee: when it comes to populations centres, the dynamics of scale are not linear. Glasgow and Aberdeen cannot be compared on a proportional basis. If Aberdeen had a venue capacity of 3,000 and a population of 200,000, that is not the same as Glasgow having a venue capacity of 15,000 and a population of 1,000,000. It is easier to draw 15,000 from 1,000,000 than 3,000 from 200,000. This effect is what causes bigger cities to 'boom' and appear more lively. People behave like gas particles, the more of them you compress into a space, the more excitable they become. Population centres have a tendancy to attract young people and repel older people, providing them with 'younger' populations. So not only does Glasgow have more people to draw on, more of them are likely to be drawn!

I rest my case.

[Flash@TMB]

Originally Posted by soundian

How many people think "Oh shit I didn't realise that was on" but don't bother typing it?

It's difficult to judge how much an impact flyposting would have, since all posters at the moment are mostly confined to the venues that put on the shows, i.e. the market which already exists.

From reading these threads, and noting the impact on a first hand basis, we can hazzard a fairly accurate guess that 2 people posting does NOT equate to 300-400 lost punters LOL.

This website exists in the microcosm of the Aberdeen music scene. Different rules apply out in the macrocosm of Aberdeen itself. Most people outside of this website have never heard, are oblivious to, and are not at interested in the majority of touring bands that play here. To change that you need to cultural shift as opposed to a few promotional tweaks.

EDIT: OK obviously I didn't rest my case. DOH! LOL.

[Flash@TMB]

Originally Posted by soundian

It's difficult to judge how much an impact flyposting would have, since all posters at the moment are mostly confined to the venues that put on the shows, i.e. the market which already exists.

And there are still venues that prohibit posters from other venues, helping to keep the market further fragmented. Which is just plain silly.

[Stripey]

Originally Posted by Cloud

Is the lack of attention paid to the grass roots music scene by the council a sign

Why on earth should the council care about or back the local music scene? Why should the press/media?

There is something slightly nauseating about this notion that "if only the council did this..." or "if only the radio took an interest..." as a cause for lack of attendance at gigs.

I think flash is right about oversaturation. I think the fact that a large proportion of local bands are nothing particularly special or anything to get excited about obviously plays a part aswell.

[Graeme]

Originally Posted by Stripey

Why on earth should the council care about or back the local music scene?

Because part of their written agenda is to create a "Cultural Buzz"

[stuartmaxwell]

Originally Posted by Flash@TMB

Most people outside of this website have never heard, are oblivious to, and are not at interested in the majority of touring bands that play here. T.

nonsense

[soundian]

Originally Posted by Flash@TMB

From reading these threads, and noting the impact on a first hand basis, we can hazzard a fairly accurate guess that 2 people posting does NOT equate to 300-400 lost punters LOL.

This website exists in the microcosm of the Aberdeen music scene. Different rules apply out in the macrocosm of Aberdeen itself. Most people outside of this website have never heard, are oblivious to, and are not at interested in the majority of touring bands that play here. To change that you need to cultural shift as opposed to a few promotional tweaks.

EDIT: OK obviously I didn't rest my case. DOH! LOL.

But maybe 2 people posting does relate to 20 lost punters, which is not an insignificant amount in a 300 capacity venue. There are a lot of people who read these forums but rarely, if ever,post here.

As I've already said, it's the people who currently don't go to see live music often that people need to target for a long term gain in numbers, so advertising somewhere that people who don't go to gigs often will see it i.e. not in the venues, is needed.
Maybe getting more information out there to the right people* will facilitate a cultural shift.
I don't suppose we'll know until somebody tries.


*The people who might go to gigs