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Something was said to me today and I wanted to see what other board members thought of this:

The assertion was that bands like Point of Origin and other "local" bands should be greatful for the gigs we get and shouldn't expect any payment. It was further suggested that asking for money was just a case of bands "playing at rockstars" and "just trying to be something above [our] station ".

What do you think?

[Adam Easy Wishes]

If the promoter is charging people to go to the show, then bands should be paid. If it's free entry, then it's understandable if the promoter hasn't got anything to give the band - I don't agree with them paying out of their own pocket as such.

But if you're a touring band, playing shows outside of your home town, you need money for food, petrol, van hire and all that malarky. So yeah...without the bands, there's no show; so if there's any money made, bands should get at least some of it.

[torn]

Pretty much what Adam said, plus in some venues you need to bring your own equipment and if you don't have anything that's stage worthy that means renting or borrowing and that can mean money so by being paid the band can at least cover any expenses they may have. Plus how else do some bands get the money to record demoes and the like, unless all are working and have money to spare gigging is the only other way to make money for your band's purposes.

[Keilan 303]

Obviously said by an idiot, or someone in a crap band / not in a band at all....

Once upon a time, I'll admit I had a slightly biased view (heavily influenced by the DIY ethics of punk, which don't always translate very well)...and bascially thought that high amounts of money being payed for playing a 20 minute gig was a bit of a joke, and that money to cover petrol (fucking essential, punk or not) maybe some beers and a tenner or so to go towards the amount of money you spent (or wasted as the case sometimes feels) towards prepping for the gig (strings, practice, batteries, sticks, skins, cymbals etc.) was adequate.....this is all fine and well...although this was never the reality, playing for a tenner starts to suck after a while after

£24 - 2 hours practice night before
£5 - set of new strings
£6 - cans of juice drunk at practice (so you don't die)
£2 - handful of plectrums
if you're not so lucky to have transport
£15 on taxis (both ways)
£30 on blank CD's to sell at gig (and a whole day wasted copying them, and no ones buying any)
£20 on drinks at the gig (at some venues, this can consist of as little as a pint each member)

Total money you spent prepping for that gig: £102......for a local gig....and you get £10, net loss -£92

Band/Members are then down £92....new gig, spend same again, get even less....band have then plunged almost £200 into nothing....

So anyone that says bands don't deserve to be paid and that money is a bonus....fuck off

Of course....things could be planned better....and if you to play to a crowd of 5 then obviously theres not really going to have been enough money generated to pay your expenses.....so bands should put in that extra effort to ensure a crowd turns up....this is an art in itself and if anyone in Aberdeen in a band that doesn't go to school or have a lot of mates that like the same music perfects it, let me know!!!!!

[psydoll]

Originally posted by Keilan 303:
£24 - 2 hours practice night before
£5 - set of new strings
£6 - cans of juice drunk at practice (so you don't die)
£2 - handful of plectrums
if you're not so lucky to have transport
£15 on taxis (both ways)
£30 on blank CD's to sell at gig (and a whole day wasted copying them, and no ones buying any)
£20 on drinks at the gig (at some venues, this can consist of as little as a pint each member)

The chance to play a stinky venue for free...priceless.

Seriously though this post puts it better than I think anyone could - how long are you going to last as a band with that kind of financial loss?

[Hogisbald]

Personally its nice to get a tenner from time to time to pay for some costs but Im not bothered if I dont get anything. Enjoying the gig and hopefully the crowd enjoying the gig is far more important

[mexineil]

Originally posted by Keilan 303:
Obviously said by an idiot, or someone in a crap band / not in a band at all....

£24 - 2 hours practice night before
£5 - set of new strings
£6 - cans of juice drunk at practice (so you don't die)
£2 - handful of plectrums
if you're not so lucky to have transport
£15 on taxis (both ways)
£30 on blank CD's to sell at gig (and a whole day wasted copying them, and no ones buying any)
£20 on drinks at the gig (at some venues, this can consist of as little as a pint each member)

Total money you spent prepping for that gig: £102......for a local gig....and you get £10, net loss -£92

While i can kind of see both sides of the argument here - I think your figures are pretty over the top and exaggerated. If this was true for every gig, most bands would be about £10,000 in debt. For instance, the CDs you make will last you til the next gig and the one after that and so on, until you sell them all, by which time you'll have made a profit or at least money back anyway. As for the practice, strings and plectrums - you don't need to practice before every gig, same goes for buying strings and plectrums. And so on.. I can see your point, but i think this list isn't very realistic and is just to try and get your side of argument across.

I think bands should get paid if the promoter is going to be making a lot of money from the gig, after all, he's making money from them - but it should really be a bonus - if you want to play your music in a band, then you can't expect to get paid all the time, afterall, there's a lot of competition out there. Plus I think the most important thing about being in a band is going out, playing shows, having fun and seeing people enjoying your songs.

Also, you need to find a new place to buy your CD-Rs.

Originally posted by mexineil:
you don't need to practice before every gig

I know, what a needless luxury!

Originally posted by Keilan 303:
Once upon a time, I'll admit I had a slightly biased view (heavily influenced by the DIY ethics of punk, which don't always translate very well)...and bascially thought that high amounts of money being payed for playing a 20 minute gig was a bit of a joke

Wanting a little money for your hard work, effort and time is not anti-DIY. It's anti-communist, but it's not anti-DIY. Playing for free for the masses is really fucking cool, but try this at your local music shop:

"Hi, I'm in a DIY punk band playing for the people tonight at [Insert name here]. Come along, its free and it'll rock!"
"Sounds good man, will do."
"Yeah, so anyway, I want some free strings and plectrums for the gig."
"I can't do that. We're not in business to give things away!"
"Fuck you, you capitalist swine!"

Paying hard-working touring bands is PRO DIY and PRO Indie music.

So next time you're asked to play a free gig that's not for charity perhaps you should say, "We're not in business to give things away". Otherwise you're only devaluing our product. Live music.

[Keilan 303]

Originally posted by mexineil:
While i can kind of see both sides of the argument here - I think your figures are pretty over the top and exaggerated. If this was true for every gig, most bands would be about £10,000 in debt. For instance, the CDs you make will last you til the next gig and the one after that and so on, until you sell them all, by which time you'll have made a profit or at least money back anyway. As for the practice, strings and plectrums - you don't need to practice before every gig, same goes for buying strings and plectrums. And so on.. I can see your point, but i think this list isn't very realistic and is just to try and get your side of argument across.

I think bands should get paid if the promoter is going to be making a lot of money from the gig, after all, he's making money from them - but it should really be a bonus - if you want to play your music in a band, then you can't expect to get paid all the time, afterall, there's a lot of competition out there. Plus I think the most important thing about being in a band is going out, playing shows, having fun and seeing people enjoying your songs.

Also, you need to find a new place to buy your CD-Rs.

I based the figures on what I've spent before all gigs I've played in the last year and a half.....yes I am in serious debt