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[Flash@TMB]

Originally Posted by KittyCat

Get a little bottle of the Carex Hand Sanitiser stuff.. Works a treat and is well handy if you're somewhere without decent running water, etc.

Either that or stop being such wimps! A few germs aren't going to do you too much harm Lol.

Not as much as worrying about them will:

Howard Hughes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Pax Vobiscum]

Originally Posted by Lucky Rathen

Anyway. What you should consider is some of that hand sanitiser that they have at T in the Park in dispensers that you squirt onto your hands and rub in. Then you don't need water.

I recall watching a news piece in which a doctor was very much opposed to the use of hand sanitiser in hospitals. Something about it makes it far less effective than soap (liquid or bar) and water. Probably that most bugs are actually immune to what's in the sanitiser, but soap works by attaching to both non-polar and polar molecules and leaving them easy to rinse off, thus avoiding the need to combat the bacteria.

I <3 wiki

Hand sanitiser is for convenience (outdoor events where water isn't readily available) whereas soap, whilst old fashioned is beaten only by chemicals that readily degrade your own skin in the process!

The water is readily available, even if it's a little slow. I shall endeavour to use the right tap from now on!

[Flash@TMB]

We switched to soap bars from liquid soap purely because of the havoc that people wreaked on the dispensers, it was costing a small fortune buying new dispensers, repairing the wall and tiles, and those cartridges of soap aren't cheap either. There was also the slip hazard when some clown emptied it onto the floor. And all that was like a weekly occurrence.

The water in the toilets is via a mixer tap, but the run to our hot water tank is very long, and the pipe holds over a gallon of water. We have to run the tap in the cleaning cupboard for 5mins to get the water hot so we can mop the floor.

The feeds to the bar sinks aren't a problem becauase they are both nearer and in almost constant use.

My understanding of science is that cold water works just as well for washing hand s anyway, just doesn't feel as nice.

The reason we don't have paper towels is that people use them to block the drains, and that means closing the bar and paying someone £300 to come round in a van, really not worth the hassle I'd rather blow my brains out than go back to paper towels.

The blue cloth towel things are not considered to be hygenic and I'm not sure you can get them anymore. Either way we used to have one, it got kicked off the wall a few dozen times and dumped in the urinal.

The upshot is that, as kindly highlighted by the above poster, it's possible to wash ones hands with the current facilities. The only way to improve on that would be to rip half the building apart and then hire a toilet bouncer (what ace job that would be), and those options are not economically viable.

Another more pressing consideration is the forthcoming EU directive on noise emissions has necessitated we spend a further 6 figure sum soundproofing the building, part of this work is currently in progress. The additional layer of roofing, new frontage, new fire doors, new ventilation, new oil tank, and *COUGH* new side passage will be tackled next.

Such is the cost of keeping a venue open in the politically correct, do-goody, nanny state, 21st Century.

BTW these forthcoming laws will impact many UK venues, we just prefer to get the work done in advance while we are in control of the deadlines, rather than stick our heads in the sand and wait for an abatement notice followed by the cops nailing the doors shut.

***

Anyhow about that wall...

[Pax Vobiscum]

After reading up on it some more, I'll admit my lack of understanding of hand sanitizers.

From the wiki:

"Alcohol rubs kill many different kinds of bacteria, including antibiotic resistant bacteria and TB bacteria. Alcohol rubs inactivate many different kinds of viruses, including the flu virus and the common cold virus. Alcohol rubs also kill fungus.

Not all pathogens are equally susceptible. Certain bacteria, especially the spore-forming gram positives (e.g. Clostridium difficile) are relatively resistant and remain biologically viable. During the Anthrax attacks on the United States Postal Service, authorities warned that alcohol hand rubs would not kill anthrax spores. In environments with high lipids or protein waste (such as food processing), the use of alcohol hand rubs alone may not be sufficient to ensure proper hand hygiene."

[Flash@TMB]

Originally Posted by Pax Vobiscum

I recall watching a news piece in which a doctor was very much opposed to the use of hand sanitiser in hospitals. Something about it makes it far less effective than soap (liquid or bar) and water. Probably that most bugs are actually immune to what's in the sanitiser, but soap works by attaching to both non-polar and polar molecules and leaving them easy to rinse off, thus avoiding the need to combat the bacteria.

I <3 wiki

Hand sanitiser is for convenience (outdoor events where water isn't readily available) whereas soap, whilst old fashioned is beaten only by chemicals that readily degrade your own skin in the process!

The water is readily available, even if it's a little slow. I shall endeavour to use the right tap from now on!

No it was a good post!

The reason there are so many sick people is because of that antibacterial crap. Soap never fails.

[Pax Vobiscum]

Oh, what I said there still stands! Did I mention that those alcohol rubs are flammable?

[Flash@TMB]

I guess we could install those radiation things that vaporize the top layer of skin. That would solve the problem. No need for any soap, water, dryer, or wet wipes then

[celtic chief]

Cheers Flash!

I didn't know the plumbing cost so much to fix. Thankfully I have never been in the position to blow my backside into the toilet when in the pub, however I think that is down to the fact that I've never samples the sandwhiches from the menu :-)

[Alkaline]

Flash, you are spot on 100% with everything there.

[Flash@TMB]

Originally Posted by celtic chief

Cheers Flash!

I didn't know the plumbing cost so much to fix. Thankfully I have never been in the position to blow my backside into the toilet when in the pub, however I think that is down to the fact that I've never samples the sandwhiches from the menu :-)

No worries. The plumbing is just a problem because it's an old building and nobody can figure out where the pipes run. They could be behind one of the walls, over the ceiling, or under the floor. Somewhere on the gents pipes will be some sort of stopcock, which is not turned on far enough, but all the stopcocks which are visible to us are accounted for elsewhere.

It may be possible for us to fit a separate header and hot water tank solely to service to toilets. This would mean tearing down a ceiling and smashing through the tiles but would probably be cheaper than tearing the building apart trying to find the missing stopcock. However the priority at the moment in getting soundproofed, and unfortunately soundproofing is also the best heat insulation known to man, so we'll then need to fit ventilation or aircon in order to compensate... and it's all very expensive.

Once that's all behind us we plan to refit the entire cellar. There's actually nothing wrong with the cellar (which we already refitted back in summer 2002), except there's a 3 pint pull on each beer line. It currently costs us around £10,000 a year in wastage in order to clean the lines each week. We need to sell an additional £20,000 of booze to cover the cost of that wastage.

The reason behind this is that back in the very old days there were huge beer tanks installed under the bar. When they switched to the modern keg system, rather than close the bar they fitted out a new cellar which was about 25m further away. That decision not to close for a week, has probably cost the bar in the order of £500,000 in todays money over the course of the past 40 years!

Unfortunately the old cellar hatch has been filled in, and the council won't let us reopen it, so we have to dig a new one, as the existing one will be in the wrong place. But that's nothing compared to the bottomless pit that is bar ownership hah hah.

So yeah, as the toilets are currently serviceable they'll have to wait until everything else gets done.

PS I'll pass on your regards to Earl of Sandwich LOL. Pretty sure they have hot water though...